The gauntlet has been thrown!

(Nicole) #41

I would start with Big Fat Surprise and Good Calories Bad Calories. If that doesn’t gte him interested, I doubt much will.

#42

These are probably the best books to try to convince someone that carbs are bad and would at the very least stimulate a curiosity that maybe what everyone’s been hearing for the 30+ years about carbs=good and fat=bad is NOT based on science.

I’d suggest that if someone is actually willing to read these books to completion, even if they appear to disagree, that 1) reading them shows a commitment that is important to recognize/acknowledge and 2) the information will plant the seeds to make them more open to the idea of LCHF/keto.

(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #43

I don’t know what an internal medicine doctor is, but is he ever likely to have to treat obese, diabetic or pre-diabetic patients himself?

He seems to at least consider the theoretical possibility that keto diets can be useful in those cases.
Perhaps if he was dealing with people like that, and was open to them trying keto, he would hopefully see what a great benefit it was in their cases, and also how bad it was for them if they went back on carbs.

He might still believe that keto is not necessary for “most” people (although given the high proportion of pre-diabetics now, that in itself is questionable), but I still feel that exposute to patients who were successful on keto, perhaps over a number of years, would begin to soften his views.

(Bacon for the Win) #44

basically a Primary Care doc, general internist.

(Michelle) #45

yes, @NelleG got it right. He’s trained as a generalist doc, the one you would go to for any/all ailments before you see a specialist. He is now in charge of all the residents at his hospital, so he can make a big impact with diet and medicine. He told me to keep sending him studies, and I will.

(Candace) #46

I’m about half way through Big Fat Surprise (audio book), it is fantastic! I love how she takes all of these studies and explains the good and the bad. Good Calories Bad Calories is on my list

(Meeping up the Science!) #47

I’d make fun of generalists, but I’m effectively a generalist myself in my field. :wink:

There are plenty of low carb doctors in Chicago. They are just all in bariatrics. I should ask my surgeon to talk to him, heh.

(Brad) #48

I find this is an interesting take, seems to me it is a end run to bash a Keto diet.
We need to do something about these Brits… lol

Also this links her position.
http://healthinsightuk.org/2015/03/16/cuddly-dietitians-in-cosy-embrace-of-industry-fat-cats/

(mezz_2000) #49

Just curious if you had any luck convincing your boyfriend about keto?

(Michelle) #50

Nope, we are just agreeing to disagree. He now says things like “was this from a real doc or from a podcast doc”? We are having fun with it. I tell him how good my podcast docs are!

(Sophie) #51

Your BF sounds like a tough nut to crack. Fortunately though, once you get him to see the light, he’ll probably be one of the most ardent advocates! Keep up the good work. :slight_smile:

(Crow T. Robot) #52

I know he’s joking, but would he consider, say, Ted Naiman a “real” doc or a “podcast” doc? I think Ted’s story of how he came to LCHF is pretty logical and reasonable.

(Michelle) #53

As long as Ted is regarded in the industry as credible, he would consider him real doc. I can point him there. thanks!

#54

Here is another real doc for you:
http://www.docsopinion.com

(Mike Glasbrener) #55

I’m late the the topic…

I have to have a short rant then I’ll be okay…

People like this (my wife) drive me crazy. Hormones have a huge effect on every living carbon based life form on earth. Except us??? NOT!!! Environment affects the way hormones are expressed which, in turn, affect the biological reaction of the exposed individual. This is true for bees, salamnders, dairy cattle etc… Nothing can be more pervasive than the food we stick in our mouth. It does NOT affect everyone the same. Again think agriculture. In this case the ones that do not give the desired result are “culled”. We do not do this in human beings. Thus our response is much more varied.

End rant

Thank you. I feel better. :grinning:

(Crow T. Robot) #56

Well, he’s certainly a real doc since he’s a practicing physician in a large clinic, who has real results with real patients. However, being regarded in the industry as credible may be difficult since he is going against the standard recommendations. His fellow doctors probably dismiss his results and consider him a rogue just for recommending carb restriction for diabetic pts.

(Keto in Katy) #57

I hear ya, but when obese and diabetic patients are getting better on Keto/LCHF while the “standard recommendations” patients are not, that’s where credibility begins and ends. Docs that hide behind the failed “standard of care” doctrine are complicit in the poor outcomes of their patients.

(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #58

As a Brit, I’d like to comment on this. I think there is a tendency here to be incredibly conservative when it comes to health and medicine, and nutrition as it relates to health.

Anyone who thinks for themselves and deviates from orthodoxy tends to be labelled a health or food faddist, or similar.

I think our NHS is partly responsible for this. Most people here (even political conservatives) support the NHS, and I do myself, in principle. It could be a major force for good, and it actually is in some, maybe many, areas. In practice though, it does tend to reinforce medical orthodoxy, and so people here are more inclined perhaps than in other places to believe the low-fat orthodoxy, that butter is bad, and that you should restrict your egg intake, etc.

(and if you even think about not vaccinating your children, you are considered to be almost as bad as a child murderer).

It’s all very frustrating and sometimes makes me angry. Most of the time I just keep calm and keto on, and bite my tongue in most conversations about health or nutrition. Unfortunately, whenever I’m eating communally, I end up more or less having to “out” myself as a very-low-carber (no point in mentioning keto), and then of course, having to justify it. Annoying, as no one else has to justify eating the crap they eat.

#59

You mentioned him being in charge of the residents at the hospital where he has privileges. You just brought big time politics into the game. He is now considered an educator by the hospital and as such is charged with providing the guidance and information that the hospital finds appropriate. If he wants to keep his position, he must tow the AMA line, which is pretty much a cut it or drug it answer to most problems.
https://discourse-cdn-sjc1.com/ketogenicforums/uploads/default/original/3X/0/d/0d27278901a34aa4d8ce285d67e4664b8844c4d8.png

While I have doubts about your changing his public mind as long as he is employed by the hospital, you may be able to change his personal mind and WOE since he seems to consider this WOE as a possibility for DT2. I don’t remember if I saw this on this or another thread, but the implications …

“Kraft demonstrated that industry SMs of blood sugar measurement including normal fasting plasma glucose (FPG<100 mg/dl) plus normal oral glucose tolerance test (NGT, 2hr<140 mg/dl) missed 75% (weighted average) of subjects labeling them as ‘normal’ when indeed they were not normal.”

Kraft’s research was done many years ago and hints at how massively prevalent and undiagnosed DT2 is. Keep in mind that our diets have not decreased in processed foods since Kraft did his research.

Dr Fung also has info on how long it takes DT2 to incubate before being diagnosed.