Test Breath Ketones without a Ketonix (using a cheap breathalyzer)

ketonix
acetone
breath

(Todd Allen) #526

As one gets more fully fat adapted the acetone level tends to go down because most tissues other than neurons of the CNS transition to burning more fatty acids directly instead of ketones. This increases the ratio of BOHB in the blood to acetone in the breath.


#527

Thanks to this thread I grabbed a greenwon off Amazon. Showed me I wasn’t in ketosis though I thought I was. On an extended fast now and the readings have steadily increased daily… .02 to .09, and today on day 3 I blew 1.9. really great tool thank you all who contributed to this thread.


(Lesley) #528

Wow that is really high @toprate. Congrates.


(Dan Dan) #529

Just came across research that correlates Ketones in the breath with Ketones in the blood and verifies the formulas: ppm = BAC x 100/2 and nmol/L = ppm x 40.

According to the research “Breath acetone concentration (BrAce) has a non‐linear relationship with blood β‐hydroxybutyrate…the non‐linear relationship between BrAce and BOHB appears to correlate well. BrAce is most sensitive to changes in BOHB between 0 and 1 mM.”

0.04 BAC x 100/2 = 2ppm Breath Acetone correlates to 0.5 mMol/L Blood Ketones
2ppm x 40 = 80 nMol/L Breath Acetone correlates to 0.5 mMol/L Blood Ketones

0.10 BAC x 100/2 = 5ppm Breath Acetone correlates to 1.0 mMol/L Blood Ketones
5ppm x 40 = 200 nMol/L Breath Acetone correlates to 1.0 mMol/L Blood Ketones

Nutritional Ketosis Begins at 0.5 mMol/L Blood Ketones correlates to BAC 0.04 (BrAce)

Optimal Ketone Zone Begins at 1.0 mMol/L Blood Ketones correlates to BAC 0.10 (BrAce)

Thank you Everyone :grinning:


(Lee Jones) #530

Thanks Todd that’s reassuring to hear. I’m hoping Santa will bring me a blood ketone meter so I can get a much better idea of where I’m up to :santa:t2::muscle:t2:


(Dan Dan) #531

Found another study and this one showed that there is a linear correlation between Blood Ketones and Breath Ketones. So I went thru my research and found a correlation between three of the Ketonix Models and the Cheap Breathalyzer. The Cheap Breathalyzer correlates almost perfectly with the Blue and Green Ranges on the two older Ketonix Models and Perfectly with the Blue and Green Ranges of the New Ketonix Model.

Blood Ketone correlation to Acetone/ketones in your breath (Cheap Breathalyzer):
0.125 mmol/L : 0.01 BAC = 0.5ppm = 20nmol/L
0.25 mmol/L : 0.02 BAC = 1ppm = 40nmol/L
0.375 mmol/L : 0.03 BAC = 1.5ppm = 60nmol/L
0.5 mmol/L : 0.04 BAC = 2ppm = 80nmol/L
0.625 mmol/L : 0.05 BAC = 2.5ppm = 100nmol/L
0.75 mmol/L : 0.06 BAC = 3ppm = 120nmol/L
0.875 mmol/L : 0.07 BAC = 3.5ppm = 140nmol/L
1.0 mmol/L : 0.08 BAC = 4ppm = 160nmol/L
1.125 mmol/L : 0.09 BAC = 4.5ppm = 180nmol/L
1.25 mmol/L : 0.10 BAC = 5ppm = 200nmol/L
1.375 mmol/L : 0.11 BAC = 5.5ppm = 220nmol/L
1.5 mmol/L : 0.12 BAC = 6ppm = 240nmol/L
1.625 mmol/L : 0.13 BAC = 6.5ppm = 260nmol/L
1.75 mmol/L : 0.14 BAC = 7ppm = 280nmol/L
1.875 mmol/L : 0.15 BAC = 7.5ppm = 300nmol/L
2.0 mmol/L : 0.16 BAC = 8ppm = 320nmol/L
2.125 mmol/L : 0.17 BAC = 8.5ppm = 340nmol/L
2.25 mmol/L : 0.18 BAC = 9ppm = 360nmol/L
2.375 mmol/L : 0.19 BAC = 9.5ppm = 380nmol/L
2.5 mmol/L : 0.20 BAC = 10ppm = 400nmol/L
2.625 mmol/L : 0.21 BAC = 10.5ppm = 420nmol/L
2.75 mmol/L : 0.22 BAC =11ppm = 440nmol/L
2.875 mmol/L : 0.23 BAC = 11.5ppm = 460nmol/L
3.0 mmol/L : 0.24 BAC = 12ppm = 480nmol/L

Acetone/ketones in your breath (New Ketonix):
BLUE : 0 - 4 PPM : Low
GREEN : 4 - 30 PPM : Nutritional Range
YELLOW : 30 - 80 PPM : High Ketosis
RED : above 80 PPM : Very High Ketosis

Acetone/ketones in your breath (Old Ketonix):
Blue - : 0-150 nmol/L : none or trace
Green - : 150-400 nmol/L : low
Yellow - : 400-930 nmol/L : medium
Red - : 930+ nmol/L : high

Acetone/ketones in your breath (Old Ketonix):
Blue - : 0 – 5 ppm : none or trace
Green - : 5 – 10 ppm : low
Yellow - :10 – 20 ppm : medium
Red - : 0 – 40 ppm : high

  • Remember only in a perfect world does everything work perfectly!

Thank you Everyone Enjoy :grinning:


(German Ketonian) #532

Sorry to say, but it doesn’t hold true for my personal data. And, frankly, I it’s a rather futile undertaking to correlate two totally different ketone bodies. One is storage (blood) the other is usage (breath), so they can’t correlate. The things you describe aren’t studies, I suppose (btw: could you give us a link? That might be handy). Here’s the link to my correlation data post.


(Dan Dan) #533

LoL I have a low IQ so I trust those way smarter than me :grinning:

It may not hold true for you but the way smarter than me Science Guys Seem to Think so who’s research I studied :thinking:

All I did was go over the research I found, one said that Blood and Breath Ketones correlate but is not linear and the other said it was linear. I verified the formula given with some of the Cheap Breathalyzers with the research. I decided to take a closer look at the Ketonix since some of their models use ppm and nmol/L and found that they correlate to both the Science and the formula. And then did the math :grinning:

My research in Measuring Ketones took me to several reviews of the Nova, and Precision meters. When using the same blood sample they consistently get different readings many times not even close. And does anyone believe in the pee stix :roll_eyes:

Home meters are used as a guide if you want actual numbers you go to a Lab. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

The Cheap Breathalyzer is just a guide :sunglasses:

I had lots of Fun going thru the research on Measureing Ketones and I am very pleased to pay under $10 one time for a Cheap Breathalyzer that does show when you are in ketosis. And now I have measurements I really don’t care if they are not 100% accurate because its just a guide :crazy_face:

Thank you Everyone :grinning:


(Dan Dan) #534

To @Zimon and anyone who wants some good reading on Breath Acetone Measurement and Ketosis and Fatloss

Breath Acetone as a Measure of Systemic Ketosis Assessed in a Rat Model of the Ketogenic Diet

Measuring breath acetone for monitoring fat loss

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.21242/full

Measuring airway exchange of endogenous acetone using a single-exhalation breathing maneuver

http://jap.physiology.org/content/100/3/880

Thank you Everyone Enjoy :grinning:


(German Ketonian) #535

Ain’t nothing to do with being smart. All that supposes that the measures you get with a 15 dollar device are accurate. As we have stated here that’s an issue. Whether you blow a 0.05 or 0.03 is dependent on so many factors including the individual unit you have.

Rather it should be treated as a discrete variable. Then it can be used to check your ketogenic status being 0 or 1. It might be different for clinical trials with REAL BrAC assessments.

But even in that case, I doubt rat experiments are reproducible for the human physiology in nutritional ketosis. If I eat 1kg of fat (which I have done at times) I end up with a BHB > 5.0 mmol/L and a relatively low BrAC. Again, this might be due to the erratic nature of measuring Acetone with a cheapo device.

My main point is - besides the fact I doubt the stark and reproducible correlation of totally different ketone bodies - I think it’s plainly a falllacy to show studies and conclude that a party fun device accurately reflects your current breath acetone on a scalar (meaning beyond a categorical) unit of measurement.


(Dan Dan) #536

@Zimon :

Did you read my posts or the research papers? The Research shows Correlation only and that it may be linear. The research nor I attest to any accuracy.

All I did was show there was a Correlation between the metrics used with the Cheap Breathalyzer and the three Ketonix models to the metrics in the Scientific Research and did the math.

Why does my sharing this bother you so much?
Why the need to discount published Scientific Research?

I am dumber than a rock and have low IQ I admit that. I did this for fun and wanted to share the science of measuring Breath and Blood Ketones with a Cheap Breathalyzer :grinning:

Thank you Everyone Enjoy :grinning:


(German Ketonian) #537

Why are you so obsessed about having a low IQ? I have just cautioned against using a breathalyzer to accurately assess your breath acetone. I didn’t attack you or stated you are an idiot or anything. Please stop inferring that I did.

I think it’s reasonable to post out critique when it’s due. If you’re not agreeing that’s fine. But don’t get passive aggressive.

Your numbers are fine I don’t have an issue with that. I disagree on the premise as stated.


(German Ketonian) #538

BTW: I use breathalyzer myself to gauge my ketosis. I think they are great. Just not as a metric, but more as a discrete variable given they are cheap/inconsistent/variable. If one accepts that, then all correlations become meaningless if they are based on the breathalyzers as you need metric variables for that (statistically speaking - granted you could calculate other numbers such an ANOVA). For correlations of breath and blood ketones you would need a lab-proof acetone device, IMHO, that actually provides accurate readings and can be interpreted in a metric fashion.


(Dan Dan) #539

LoL

Its called humor :grinning:

You are taking this to seriously lighten up :kissing_heart:


(German Ketonian) #540

Well, it appears my point isn’t coming across and or you’re unwilling/unable to respond to my point of contention, so I opt out of this conversation.


(Dan Dan) #541

Update just finished a 48 hour dry fast my BAC went from a 11-12 to a 14 :astonished:

According to my research and the science a BAC of 14 = 7ppm = 280 nmol/L Acetone/ketones in your breath.

According to Ketonix: GREEN : 4 - 30 PPM : Nutritional Range

Some scientific research shows 7ppm = 280 nmol/L Acetone/ketones in your breath correlates to 1.75 mmol/L Blood Ketones.

Other research shows 1.75 mmol/L Blood Ketones (7ppm Acetone/ketones in your breath) is in the Optimal ketone zone (Optimal fuel flow for Brain and Muscles)

I do not claim that the cheap breathalyzer is in any way comparable to a professional breathalyzer but it does show an increase in breath ketones one would expect after fasting :grin:

The Cheap Breathalyzer is a Quick and fun way to check your Ketones :grin:

Thank You Everyone Enjoy :wink:


(Sean) #542

The readout on Ketonix is affected by alcohol consumption.
If you consume some wine , the alcohol exhaled will send Ketonix mad
but blood ketones may still be moderate.
I have tried to calibrate the Ketonix colours against my Optimum Neo blood ketone tester but have yet to get a linear relationship.
I suspect that I would have to skip alcohol for a day or so before anything accurate would emerge.


(Dan Dan) #543

Endogenous breath acetone is correlated with and can be used to understand the rate of fat loss. Maintaining a 2 ppm BrAce while on a calorie restriction diet should cause fat loss :star_struck:

Breath acetone concentration (BrAce) is a non-invasive measure of ketosis. :heart_eyes:

Higher consistent levels of breath acetone may be a more useful indicator than blood ketones that you are burning fat :thinking:

Good luck and much success in your journey in IF/EF Keto WOE :grin:


(Duane Hewitt) #544

I disagree with your characterization of acetoacetate as the ketone body of waste. It is very much an active and potent molecule and is extremely underappreciated. Look at all the places that acetate comes to play in biochemistry; acetyl-CoA as the metabolite in fat metabolism, acetylcholine, acetylation of proteins, and as a feedstock for glial cells to support cognitive function. It comes downstream of BHB so in many cases it is difficult to determine whether the benefits from ketosis are from acetoacetate or from BHB.


(Damon Chance) #545

Acetone is the date produced from the utilization of acetoacetate if I’m understanding things correctly. And from what I’ve seen it is the ketone our body utilizes and BHB has to be converted to it before it is used.