Test Breath Ketones without a Ketonix (using a cheap breathalyzer)

ketonix
acetone
breath

#21

Yes you are.

BHBA is intimately related to acetoacetate. They are just one hydrogen atom different and metabolically there is a lot of conversion between the two. BHBA breaks down into AcAc and they both break down into Acetone.

Both BHBA and AcAc have an acetone molecule in them. The statement you quoted isn’t meant to exclude BHBA. It’s just that AcAc is more direct. Think of it as a 1-2-3 and 3-2-1 process. Acetone <-> AcAc <-> BHBA.

You can also see this in the diagram you posted, that AcAc has 2 Acetone molecules in it linked by a carbon bond, and BHBA has substituted one Oxygen atom for a Hydrogen instead. So the chemical reaction description of the breakdown is merely described differently “decarboxylated”.


#22

I just realised that there is of perhaps a way to distinguish how much of the Acetone is coming from AcAc and how much is an indicator of BHBA. At least with more experimenting.

The breathalyzer measures your Acetone. The urine sticks measure your Acetoacetate (though excreted only). So perhaps if your Acetone is high and your Acetoacetate measure is low this can be an indicator that BHBA is high.

Of course, there’s a difference between what’s in the urine and what’s in the breath. But still, I’m thinking about correlations which is where we need to be to solve the testing puzzle.


#23

@yogipete, thank you for pointing out the information and I concede the relationship between acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate and admit that I need to do a lot more reading. :bow:

I have the older Ketonix, but I consistently registered absolutely minimal ketosis even when blood ketones from BHB were over 3.0 mmol, with no detectable acetone odor from my breath and used some pee strips I had lying around to see if they registered anything, they didn’t, and I felt great.

In other words, on multiple occasions, I was definitely deep into ketosis and registered no appreciable quantities in breath or urine and only in the blood.

That’s my n=1 and what drives my skepticism as well as the other threads where others are having disappointing results with the Ketonix and will concede that some may come from technique, but others claim to be doing everything and still not seeing a correlation between acetone in the breath and BHB in the blood.

I want anything that detects acetone in the breath to work, such as the Ketonix, so I can trade in my older unit for one of the newer ones, but right now I’m not convinced that lack of acetone in the breath is an indicator of not being in ketosis. In other words, I don’t think detecting acetone can be a false positive, but the lack of it can be a false negative.


#24

Maybe you’re so keto adapted and perfectly balanced in your keto diet that you don’t even have acetone in the breath. Not enough left over.

In any case, if the ketonix was more reliable I would probably argue for its purchase. Instead I’m promoting this cheaper option. It’s working for me right now (n=1). Cost is $0 per test.


#25

A personal question. Do you generally have no issues with loved ones mentioning your keto breath? Do you notice Acetone in your breath yourself? A funkiness?

If not then I really have to say… You suck! I’m so jealous. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#26

I’ve even asked and they don’t smell anything and I’m probably jinxing myself, but I usually have no body odor of any kind even when others around me smell. I get comments, “I can smell (someone else), but I can’t smell anything from you at all”. Before keto, and when I strayed from it, even I could detect my own odors, but not eating this way.


#27

Ok, definitely, you suck! Haha. Good on ya!


(gooeykablooey) #28

I got mine new on ebay for $2.65 just had to wait a while for it to ship. Works awesome even though pee strips show nothing


#29

That’s awesome @Lolo

Mine usually reads 0.04 or 0.05.


(gooeykablooey) #30

@yogipete I’m not really sure if my result is good or cruddy :slight_smile: I just take that I’m getting a result at all as a good sign and figured I’d share that this cheapo model from eBay does work


(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #31

I bought a ~$10 (Canadian) unit from Amazon this week and regularly blow 0.03-0.05. I asked my (non-keto) wife to provide a breath specimen and she came up zeros.


#32

This is really intriguing. If enough data could be pulled together to get a general idea of what the levels correspond to that would be awesome.

I have an older Ketonix Sport myself (pre 2015 model, but above the most basic). From that model onward they did do more than just 3 lights giving a general range. With the Sport they still have 3 (or 4 actually) lights, but they blink a number of times (between 1 and 10) indicating what level they are at within the general range. From that, many people did some comparisons with blood ketone devices to try and get at least a general idea of what was where. It was still a bit hazzy as I recall, but for many was pretty good (I usually hit 2-4 red, which if I recall would correlate to something around over 3 mmol, but again, these were hazzy estimates at best).
I still have mine around somewhere, but haven’t used it in a while (haven’t really felt the need, and it started acting up a lot a while back to the point where it wouldn’t get past the warm up stage sometimes, so wasn’t sure how reliable it was anymore). I’ve kinda wanted one of the newer ones that can track and give better readouts in software, but the price is prohibitive for something I don’t see that I really need. A cheaper option that could get close would be great though.

As for keto breath, while i was usually able to register on it fine(the possible issue for some may found when reading further into the instructions where they mention acetone is heavy and typically in the last 10-20% or so of the air in your lungs), I don’t know if I have much of keto breath now, or anytime beyond the first couple months. I recall back then having a bit of a metallic taste in my mouth sometimes, but otherwise I don’t know. I’ve asked my wife before and she said she hadn’t noticed anything in particular about my breath, so there’s that at least. My siblings aren’t usually super close to my face but they’d be the next group to actually say something to me about it, and they haven’t. I wonder sometimes if I’m either just not near people to bother them or if others just don’t want to say anything, or if there’s simply no problem.


#33

Depends on your keto aims. I Really can’t eat carbs so I seem to be pretty deep in ketosis.


#34

I really cannot understand how a $5 device can have a digital readout and a $200 ketonix flashes lights to indicate numbers.

Given how primitive the ketonix seems I actually doubt whether the underlying technology is actually any different to a breathyliser.

IN FACT, WE CAN TEST IT…

Can you get your wife to drink some alcohol, wait a few minutes then use the ketonix? If it registers anything that would prove the underlying tech is no more advanced than the cheapies.


(Tom) #35

I don’t suppose folks would mind including the bands of the breathalyzers they purchased? Maybe some are better for our use than others.


#36

There’s not a lot to choose from on eBay. There’s only about three cheapies. You can see the photos posted on this thread that match.


(Chris W) #37

I don’t think the alcohol test “proves” that the Ketonix is not more useful than the cheap devices for measuring acetone in breath, but according to the Ketonix Manual , pages 28 and 29, the Ketonix will register a positive result if you have been drinking alcohol. It also says that carbs can trigger a false positive due to methane production from carb digestion.


#38

The old ones were just the flashing lights (and didn’t cost $200 back then, though they were still expensive). The 2015 onward models, I believe, actually link up to software on your computer (that they make) and give more precise readouts, tracking and visualization (graphs) that way.

You may still be right though that the underlying tech they were or are using isn’t much better or different from the cheap Breathalyzers. Personally, I can see the software itself being useful for some, but not worth an extra $180 or so if it’s possible to get near the same functionality from a $20 (or less) Breathalyzer for my own purposes. So… would be good to figure out how different they may be and start trying to track and determine relationships between BAC level readouts and Blood Ketone levels.


#39

I didn’t say it proves a ketonix is more or less useful. I said it proves the underlying tech is the same.

Good to know, regarding the manual pages 28 29. This is my point. That the underlying tech is the same as a $2-$10 breathalyzer. Personally I couldn’t give 2 hoots about the computer software. If the underlying tech is the same all we need is a lookup chart for our mg/L of acetone conversion. It would appear that this is the only smarts of the ketonix. I cannot see how it’s worth an extra $200.


#40

The big question that remains: is the ketonix actually more precise in regards to detecting acetone? Only cheap Breathalyzers cannot distinguish between acetone and alcohol, as the ones acceptable for most professional and legal purposes must be able to make the distinction. I wonder if the others are also more precise (part of the reason for additional cost), and thus, conversely, I wonder if the cheap ones are highly inaccurate. Ketonix could have the additional precision the same way more expensive Breathalyzers can be more precise (along with being able to distinguish between different chemicals).

We might find the ketonix isn’t much better still (it’s not considered super accurate), but the question is still open at this point.