Tell me, once more it isn't about calories


(Rhiannon ) #1

Please humor me and tell me that calorie consumption is not the focal point of Keto.

I’m completely on board with the science of why Keto is beneficial for weight loss but I also am slightly confused about the amount of calories being consumed.

Last year I lost 50 pounds while eating no gluten, less carbs but working out intensely and weightlifting. I didn’t count calories but I was likely not eating enough as well. I have a history of anorexia/bulimia, I stopped working out intensely do to some health issues and then subsequently consumed too many calories (still gfree) and within 10 months have gained the weight back.

Keto seems logical to me but there is this nagging thought that really a balanced diet and a set amount of calories is better for the body. And a Keto way is really just another way to cut a large number of calories therefore weight loss is inevitable.

Just needing clarity and the encouragement that Keto isn’t another gimmick. I want a lifelong lifestyle choice.


(John) #2

What in your mind is a “balanced diet”? And where did you get that idea? I ate lots of carbs, got fat and had bad hypoglycemia issues. I watched a season of a show called Alone, they chuck these people out in the wilderness in Canada and the last one to call in wins, basic supplies, nobody votes anyone off, its just survival. When you see what they eat; birds, fish, mice and the occasional piece of seaweed I realized that is what man evolved eating. I wanted to return to what was really a balanced diet, I looked at Paleo and that to me was a wimps edition of Keto, Do I only eat what I could go outside and catch? No, but my chicken breast and butter dinner is a lot closer to our ancestors than Doritos.
Calories are still important, you still won’t lose weight if you consume more than you burn, but to me one of the principles of keto is a self-understanding that not everyone burns calories the same, and a calorie is not a calorie. Even carb burners who say a calorie is a calorie still wouldn’t replace all of their daily calories with trans fat. Why not? Because the calories in trans fats has a different effect on your body than an apple does. They can see and acknowledge that, and then quickly ignore it when it comes to bread.
We as humans spent millions of years developing our system to run on certain fuels, and those were not carbs, we are resetting ourselves to run off of what we were meant to.

As far as just restricting calories, I promise eating fat does not automatically restrict your calories! Every gram of fat has twice the calories as a gram of carbs. I am within a few pounds of where I ever want to be, and when I get there I will try to up the fat a little but I am never going back.


(I want abs... olutely all the bacon) #3

Welcome and congratulations overcoming anorexia/bulimia issues. We luv you’re seeking the science. CICO is false for me, I finished 6-weeks zero carb (ZC) in Dec/Jan, usually consumed 2,000+ calores per day and lost 17 pounds. 2,000+ calories is a lot for my 5’ 2" 50 year old frame, keto and my weight loss is about what I eat and how I eat it, as it is for many of us. I usually eat between 1,300 and 1,700 calories because I like a few greens in my day :blush: when I’m not eating ZC. You will need to find the macro blend that works best for you.

A good thread on CICO is Fat loss on CICO?


(Rhiannon ) #4

This helps. A balanced diet in my mind contains more varieties of fruits, vegetables and legumes. I’ve never been a fan of grains, sure there was a time I over ate them but it’s been a few years.

The fasting and idea that just bulletproof coffee in the morning is sufficient has me concerned I’d stop eating and then binge.


(Rhiannon ) #5

Yea, nutrient dense food has been a staple in my life for the past 5 years. Doritos and other processed foods haven’t made me fat or been the main issue. That I am well schooled on.


(Rhiannon ) #6

Oh! The CICO is a great thread! I will go back to that a few times! Super helpful! As far as overcoming eating issues I think it will always be a battled, I would just like to feel good while battling!


(Kathy Meyer) #7

It’s not about calories. I’ve been struggling with weight my entire life, and I’ve been a pretty disciplined person through the various diets I’ve tried, including calorie reduction. Even when not on a diet, I never ate a lot of junk, nor did I eat a lot of quantity of food. So after another failed attempt to lose weight, I started to track every bite of food, and every step of activity. I did it for a few weeks and learned that every day I am at a calorie deficit. Not even dieting, I almost always eat fewer calories than I expend. So if CICO worked, I would be dead – I wouldn’t exist. Or at least I would be thin.

It’s the insulin. Once I read Gary Taubes and Jason Fung and learned that I have a deranged metabolism and insulin resistance, I changed to a ketogenic diet and started fasting – all aimed at lowering insulin. I don’t count calories, but I do make sure I get enough on non-fasting days in order to not lower my resting metabolic rate. I’m sure there are days when I eat a lot of calories, probably more than I used to.

So as a post-menopausal, hypothyroid female, I can now lose weight. Slowly for sure, but I expect I’ll have lost around 125 pounds within 2 years. If I had stuck to CICO, I’d weigh near 300 pounds and still have no idea how to change that.


(Rhiannon ) #8

Oh that’s super helpful and exactly where I am. I am hypothyroid but have normal levels while on Armor. I’ve been able to reverse Hashimotos over the last few years of steering clear of gluten and eggs. I’ve debated checking my insulin levels.


(Richard Morris) #9

If you are a type 2 diabetic (actually any diabetic, but more of us are type 2) then weight is a symptom of the disease not it’s cause … so weight lose is really tangential to the reason a lot of type 2s do keto.

Our problem is we can’t safely regulate glucose when it goes high. We can however when it goes too low - because our livers will make it when we need it. But the only way we can do that is by not eating sugars and starches. A ketogenic diet is just a safe method for doing that.

So calorie consumption is not the focal point for that population … although if you tell most diabetic we can cure your disease, OR we can cure it AND you can be normal weight - most would chose option B. So it’s a nice bonus.

Luckily a ketogenic diet allows us to lower insulin, drawdown stored energy in body fat, and our appetites work to adequately appropriately fuel us instead of just fuel increasing storage.


(Rhiannon ) #10

I do not have diabetes but based on family history that could be a direction my body chooses to go. Your explanation is helpful.

I want a healthy body that functions at its best.

My biggest concern is that I am just falling for another fad. Oh the mind, the tricks it plays.


(Richard Morris) #11

Yeah I get that. I suspect for diabetics reversing an exclusively progressive disease it’s a lot more of an epiphany “Ah this is how I can safely eat for the rest of my life” than a fad.

For people who are insulin sensitive and just looking to cut the last 10lbs of unsightly fat, it can get a bit faddish. That’s we see people eating cyclic keto where they have a high carb cheat day once a week. For someone already metabolically deranged that would be crazy talk, but for someone insulin sensitive that’s just one more adaptation the remarkable human body can adapt to.


(Geoffrey) #12

I must reference you to a youtuber named jason wittrock who is doing keto and a 21 day 4000 calorie challenge right now. He is a body builder but he has lost a pound in 8 days. He doesn’t believe in CICO either. Curious to follow along and see the results. Hope this helps a little.


(Meeping up the Science!) #13

When I say binge here I mean a true pathological binge.

The thing about binging is that it’s not random at all - there is always a trigger, and most often it is done for the purposes of control, odd as that sounds. Food may cause us to overeat, however something else causes us to binge.

It’s no small feat you overcame disordered eating. I struggle with not binging daily. I do not because I address the issues that spur it. In my case it substituted healthy emotion regulation and stress reduction. Be proud of your achievement :slight_smile:

A true ketogenic diet isn’t a gimmick as we evolved eating this way for millennia before the advent of agriculture - culture depending. Our bodies resonate well with it.

Having said that, caution should always be exercised fasting with a history of eating disorders. The daily BPC isn’t necessarily everyone who does keto. Neither is fasting. Many people eat 3 meals all low carb. I IF daily, but it took many years to get to this point.

It’s not about calories. It’s about nourishment and respecting our bodies by giving them the fuel they need that is both healthy and appropriate.


#14

For me, I establish an eating window of one hour. So, I can eat as much as I want (keto compliant), and when one hour window closes, fasting goes on until tomorrow’s one hour window opens. If I don’t do this, I will just continuously snack all day, without satiety signal. And, during the one hour window, I actually stop eating, because I’m stuffed full, as I get a satiety signal.

I don’t know how to characterize the phenomenon of being able to snack all day without satiety signal. Pathological eating? Binge eating? Mindless eating? Other?


(Rhiannon ) #15

Donna, I’m not sure I’ve overcome anything, I’m simply aware that there is a problem.

Control is absolutely the root for me.

Ask me about a diet plan and I likely can provide an essay about it.

I’m taking my time with Keto, probably because I know this is best for me. I just want a normal middle road. I don’t want to grip too tight nor do I want to be lazy.

Thank you for the support!


(Rhiannon ) #16

This puts everything into perspective.

I don’t fall into either category. I do not show any symptoms of disease other than obesity. I also want to find the best macro balance for my body, I’m not looking for a “cheat day” meal plan.

I believe in this. I want the benefits it provides. I think the additional issue is the swimming upstream feeling, the aspect that no one in my immediate social circle is living this way. Which creates doubt, which makes me question myself, not Keto. So it seems I may need to post and interact on this forum much more and make it a priority to dull the doubt.


(Rhiannon ) #17

I will watch him tomorrow, thank you!


(Barbara Greenwood) #18

How about We can cure your disease AND you will lose a fair amount of weight BUT you won’t be a normal weight…

My fear - 7 months into keto, 55lb down but still 70lb above the normal weight range according to BMI - is that I will stall completely at a point where I’m still clearly very overweight. And that I’ll get frustrated, and start doing stupid things to try to get the weight moving again… and then I’ll go off the rails and start bingeing.

I’ve never been bulimic, but I have met the diagnostic criteria for binge eating disorder for a lot of my life. Since going keto, I’ve had a number of occasions when I have seriously overdone it on keto foods, e.g. roasting a cup of spiced almonds intended to be eaten over the space of a week, but they’re gone by the end of day one. That can’t be helping my weight…


(Richard Morris) #19

Yeah I think that’s probably closer to the lived experience, We may have unrealistic expectations of what is normal. For example if I go by BMI, for men of my height the IDEAL weight range is 59 kg to 79 kg. Well my Lean mass is 80.38 kg according to DEXA. So even if I could get to 0% Body fat I would still be 1.38 kgs into overweight. Clearly that is ridiculous.

I have no aspiration to be 59-79 kgs … the weight I am right now is how my body has optimized for survival, and flexibility. I can water fast for 10 days, and then cycle 100k (when my knee cooperates). My body appears to know what it’s doing.


(Natasha Llewellyn) #20

I love the idea of an eating window, and especially the window you have adapted to! Way to go Fiorella :wink: