Tell me about carnivore

(Little Miss Scare-All) #1

So, lord only knows how many times this subject has been breached, but I’m curious about people’s personal experiences from starting out Keto non-carnivore, and their decision and findings after deciding to go Keto carnivore. What were your reasons for dropping the veggies?

I ask because I’m looking to shake things up and want to hear from personal experience.

I guess what stops me from doing it is thinking of how it could possibly bring a lack of nutrients into my diet. A lack of fiber. Isn’t there good stuff for your liver, in greens?

I’m attracted to the idea of not having to fuss with vegetables, I’ll be totes honest with you. I like veggies just fine, but if they disappeared from existance, I would obviously wonder what happened to them, but I wouldn’t cry over it.

#2

For me I really do believe the science surrounding the carnivore concept as it relates to vegetables, which is rooted (sorry) in the notion that they do everything they can (toxins) to not be eaten. I also believe the proponents’ position on fiber (not necessary for good gut health).

That being said, I don’t have and never had excema, alopecia, dandruff, insomnia, Quasimoto (or is it Hashimoto?) Disease, IBS, leaky gut syndrome, twitchy eyes, halitosis, brittle nails, weak knees, sore backs, sore fronts, toothaches, EEEW (Egregiously Excessive Ear Wax, if you don’t know that acronym), or any other ailment that carnivore supposedly cured or relieved in others. In other words, a strict carnivore period (60 days or so) was fun and fine for me but dreadfully boring by day 60. Since I have no issues with leafy greens and cabbage, when I added them back in as a side dish (proportion wise), I started to enjoy eating again (color, variety, crunch, mouthfeel). You can only have so many shrimp in melted butter. Sometimes it’s nice to cook a pound of ground beef and roll in some kimchi and get all those textures, temperatures, and mouthfeel.

Long story short - I read the science, nodded my head, tried it, didn’t move the needle because I didn’t have much “repair” to do, and went back to more traditional keto as that’s way more sustainable for me. Carnivore was not something I could ever see me doing long term.

#3

I recommend episode 172 (the current episode) of Dr Paul Saladino’s podcast. In it he explains his current thinking between keto and carnivore and how it’s evolved over the past year or two. It’ll likely address some of your wonderings as he’s been on the tip of the spear with carnivore like Shawn Baker.

(Little Miss Scare-All) #4

I can totally see that happening with me. Is 60 days enough to cure Quasimoto though? :sweat_smile:

I think 60 days is a good amount of time to test the waters, in general. The thing about any of this is, some people find Keto to be a cure for all sorts of things, and to be quite honest, in the 3 years I’ve been doing Keto, the only thing (though it holds great worth to me) that it has truly helped is my food addiction to be kept at bay. To me that’s enough for me to keep plugging along with it.

It’s definitely messed up my hair thickness. But to be fair, my hair is constantly being bleached and is hot pink or bright purple 90% of the time.

I’ve also found that my workouts in general have suffered, energy-wise, in the last 3 years. This could also be for a number of reasons. The point is, I’m curious about perhaps reaping more benefits by giving carnivore a go.

I appreciate your input. I will do some research on my own, but still want to know what actual people experience and not only what an article says alone.

#5

I went carnivore to use it as an elimination diet. Veggies, dairy, and nuts–something seemed off. I started with red ruminant animals such as beef, bison, and lamb. Additionally, I ate lots of eggs. I did it for 90 days and stuck to my plan.

I added veggies, dairy, and nuts back individually as to not confound my experience. Dairy seemed to make me feel more hungry. Nuts (macadamia mostly) just left me wanting more. Veggies gave me some joint discomfort. I’m 36, now very aware of my body, I figured I should not be feeling joint discomfort.

I went back to just meat because it makes me feel the best. I do HIIT, resistance training, and some cardio and feel great. Carnivore also seems to make me more attuned with hunger signals.

Dr. Ken Berry, Dr. Shawn Baker, Dr. Paul Saladino would be all good resources to start with. Worth investigating to give you an idea if you want to use carnivore as a way to shake things up.

(Robin) #6

The fiber from veggies was what what aggravated my diverticulitis. I had a flair up every few months before going carnivore, and it has never returned in that year. And I did not come by it lightly. Veggies are my favorite food in the world. I also learned that a significant amount of cheese aggravated my joints (inflammation/arthritis) plus made me lethargic. I also love cheese.
I think you’ll find that many of us end up carnivores by being keto first, then listening to our body and paying attention to how we felt after eating certain foods. BUT… lots of carni folks do great with both veggies and cheese. It is incredibly individual.

Oh yeah…like @djc985, nuts had to go too.
But, I feel so good, it far outweighs missing some old faves.

(Little Miss Scare-All) #7

I do the same. HIIT 1-2 days a week, compound resistance, and my cardio shifts between some benign walking, stairs or rowing. Though lately, I’ve taken to keep my HIIT and use rowing as my resistance. I’m kind of a rowing junkie.

Same. Sometimes I’ll take a quick mouthful of light cream, and like an hour later I’m thinking about more, with some cheese.

Makes sense to me. I don’t have diverticulitis but if I eat too many greens, I feel like I’m giving birth to the moon.

Also same. Especially my knees. And the facial bloat is pretty dumb, too. This makes me frown because cheese is awesome and makes life better, except for the part about crappy knees and fugly face. :tipping_hand_woman:‍♀

EDIT: I’ve just realized something. About 3 months ago, I broke my proximal humerus bone while skateboarding. Whenever I eat cheese, I’m super achey in the break. Why does cheese gotta play me like that. :tired_face:

#8

One caveat I failed to mention was when I did dairy I was using heavy whipping cream, butter, ghee, and some cheese. I stopped the cream and felt better, then found some goat cheese at Costco and also bison cheese (both A2 protein). Neither of those made me feel achey in the break, quite the opposite in fact! Perhaps all my research on A2 proteins just made what I got a placebo and it in fact played me like that as well, but I could eat a significant amount without any seemingly adverse effects.

I did Dr. Berry’s beef, butter, bacon, and eggs recommendation. I have been doing less butter recently for no particular reason. I usually eat at least a pound of either ground beef, ground bison, or ground lamb each time I eat with 3-4 eggs, and I’ve been doing two meals a day. I’ll cook up a batch of bacon and throw that in every other day or so.

When I receive the hunger signal, I can trust it now. The signal to noise ratio is the highest it has ever been. Even though keto got me to a much better spot, some of the aforesaid items such as veggies or dairy would adulterate the signal to noise ratio and confuse me.

#9

I’ve been contemplating getting a rowing machine. Do you enjoy your rowing workouts? I could see it being used for either HIIT or resistance, with low impact. This is the main reason I’m interested.

My HIIT is jumping rope, kettlebell/macebell workouts, and bodyweight exercises. Definitely need a more low impact routine for HIIT to accompany my benign walking. Walking is pretty damn amazing, though.

(Michael) #10

Went carnivore to work on autoimmune IBS. It took 3 months to show it was working. Tried to reintroduce some nuts and veggies, but body prefers carnivore so here I am approaching one year and still happy with this WOE.

#11

Fiber isn’t essential but you need to figure out how your body responds to zero. Mine couldn’t care less about my fiber intake, it’s happy with all numbers, apparently.

My reason to… Not actually doing carnivore but staying as close as comfortably possible most of the time is that my body prefers extreme low-carb. More like extreme low plant carbs, I don’t care about the animal carbs except maybe excessive amounts of lactose. That’s for rare occasions, it’s nice sometimes :slight_smile:
Vegs aren’t satiating, it’s a lot of work, they cost storage place and money that would be waaaay better spent on my proper, satiating, nutritious food and they are way too carby so keto with vegs never gave me benefits beyond the cute fat adaptation hunger. Going lower with carbs especially plant carbs yield a ton of benefits… So it’s pretty easy for me.
Meat has everything we may need, people proved that and my body is very “vocal” when it’s missing something so I don’t worry. I do know it’s not right for everyone but I haven’t find a woe with more than minimal plants in it that felt right… Carnivore-ish (my thing, carnivore with tiny extras but not just anything is allowed) is great as long as I don’t get bored or miss something but now it’s not a big danger and if happens, I go out, big deal. I keep the benefits for a little stroll and then I come back anyway.

I have absolutely no problem with vegs personally. I lost interest in most, I mean it health wise. It seems to me that most people are sickly and have problem with all kinds of stuff. I don’t. I just feel better when my plant carbs are almost zero. A little difference physically but big mentally. Plant carbs mess with me after some point, triggering overeating. Carnivore or close is chill and I am able to eat in a small deficit, something I couldn’t do on keto so I never lost fat while it was my plan several years ago when I went keto for the first time. I am super stubborn and WILL make fat-loss (and muscle gain) happen. But my main goal is feeling optimal, having more than little energy and carnivore seems to help with it.

My keto wasn’t typical, it’s possible some very low-carb keto with meat would have worked - but I can’t go back, my current style seems perfect. I just need to figure out the tiny details.
And my lost interest in vegs stubbornly stays away. But I hated most green leaves all my life, I just loved to bits all the others and ate them in bigger amounts. So carbs came and messed up things.

My longest carni period was 2 weeks this far. Maybe next year I can go higher but as long as I stay close most of the time, it’s pretty good, I don’t feel motivated to do it “properly” but I experiment and evolve and we will see! I get my benefits after a few days, usually and if I don’t stray too much, they don’t even go away.

There are so many reasons to try carnivore. Healing and figuring out sensitivities through elimination never was among my reasons but I have plenty others.

There are different styles for carnivore too. One should find their own.

(Alec) #12

My reasoning was very simple: I wanted to lose weight, I knew keto worked, but I always struggled with keeping the carbs low on keto, I would always seem to have a few more than I really wanted/needed.

Go on carnivore, no more problem. Yes, there are some small marginal carbs on carnivore, but you are almost guaranteed to keep insulin low on carnivore, and thus stay in fat burning mode.

I honestly thought I would only do carnivore for a couple of months to kick start weight loss and develop the right habits, but I have loved being carnivore, and 7 months later I am still on it, and loving it. No motivation right now to move away from carnivore. Never hungry, eating less, losing weight, eating great food. What’s not to like?

It is so easy. It is simple to execute. And it works. And most of all, I think I can maintain really easily on carnivore when I need to maintain, which has always been my achilles heel. Will I ever eat veg again? I am sure I will, but I know that as soon as things are not working, I can easily use carnivore to get back under control.

I can see my diet long term being 5 days carnivore, with a couple of meals including veg if it suits me.

But here’s the thing when you research carnivore: it is very clear that nutrients are highest in meat (especially organ meats) and fat. It is a myth that the most nutritious foods are fruit and veg. It is just plain mythology. And there is also no doubt that for some people the low level poisons in all plants are real trouble. I think most people can tolerate plants pretty well, but I think there are lots of people that can’t, and even more people whose health would improve a lot by not eating plants.
Cheers
Alec

(Marianne) #13

For me, it was a natural transition. I was never a huge fruit and vegetable consumer, although I did like some. Pre-keto, I rarely ever had vegetables because they usually were eaten in the context of a “meal” that I cooked, and I never cooked. I ate junk, carbs and fast food; that was it. The only time I’d have vegetables was when we’d go to a restaurant or at a holiday where there was a big spread of all kinds of things.

When I started keto, I began cooking dinner every night. That consisted of some kind of meat or protein and a steamed veggie in butter or bacon grease. Usually it was brussels sprouts every night, which were delicious and I never tired of. After a couple of years of that, I came to the conclusion that I was eating them just because I thought they were “good” for me and that I needed to eat something of the earth. I’ve been zero carb/carnivore now for a year and a half. I love it and it suits my preference. I love fat and rich food and don’t miss the veggies. To me, they were mainly a conduit for fat, anyway, so why not just eat more fat and forget the filler?

The concept of carnivore was very foreign to me. I had a lot of reservations about whether or not this WOE was healthy. I brought my questions and concerns here and people provided so much great information that confirmed my decision.

Good luck to you.

(Shannon) #14

@Alecmcq Did you see improved weight loss after a period of time on carnivore, like after a few weeks or months? I don’t think I can ever give up veggies and dairy, I just love them too much. But, I would like to accelerate my weight loss for some time period, then go back to veggies once I’m at a point where I just need to maintain.

(Wendy) #15

Sounds familiar. Funny my Dr said when I went in with diverticulitis episode. “Veggies don’t like you” and dairy is a huge NoNo. So Carnivore seemed to be the answer. I didn’t eat nuts anyway. Another good Dr to listen to is Dr. Anthony Chaffee. He too has alot of great information. Along with Dr Ken Berry, Dr Shawn Baker, Dr. Ben Bikman.

(Alec) #16

Shannon
It is difficult to comment too much as I was persuaded by everyone on here to stop measuring, and I did, and I am glad I did. But I have a subjective opinion, which is that doing carnivore has definitely led to weight loss, but I think it is a bit slower than my other go to strategy which is fasting. But it is steadier, and I think I will find it easier to maintain. I am never hungry on carnivore: if I am hungry, I find some meat to eat.

One thing to add: I have dairy on my version of carnivore: I eat cream, cream cheese and cheese a lot. Strictly, this is not carnivore, but like you, I love these foods too much and I think it has not affected too much my weight loss (I could be wrong on this). Key point: if having dairy makes it easier to maintain for ever, then that’s a good trade off for me!

In summary, slow and steady wins the race. Don’t be in too much of a rush. You do you, and if you want dairy and veg, you have those foods.
Cheers
Alec

#17

I’m on my third week of carnivore. I doubt I’ll make it a lifestyle, but maybe one month twice a year would suit me. It has convinced me to keep my carbs under 10g, trying to hang on to the benefits. I don’t weigh, so I can’t address that, but I’m losing fat.

I don’t have inflammation issues or food sensitivities, but that would be a great reason to do it. That, or kick yourself off a stall. Or to pack on muscle by doing it and increasing weight-lifting.

The most amazing result to me was the sleep. OMG, I have not slept like this in over fifty years. I fall asleep fast, sleep hard, if I have to get up to pee I’m out again in less than a minute (used to be that sometimes was the end of my sleep for the night), and when I wake up, it’s like I’m 100% at my mental best from second 1 of waking. My memory issues (I’m in my 60s) are gone, all that “now where did I put that?” and “what was that I wanted to add to the grocery list?” are no longer issues. I know exactly where I put it, and I immediately recall what I wanted on the list. So for me, when I reach the carb levels where I lose those two things, I’ll drop back down until I have those benefits back. If that’s 5 carbs, so be it. I want this sleep and clarity of thought!

A minor gain, though I do like it, is how easy grocery shopping is. Eggs, meat, checkout, gone. a 10-minute effort.

You don’t need fiber. People who eat junk food do. Meat eaters can control their bowel movements by fiddling with the fat. More fat, you go more.

Another doctor to follow (podcast/youtube) is Dr. Anthony Chaffee. Look at a recent video. He is so busy with work, he says, he only has time to work out twice a month. Most men would kill to have a body like that, so it’s quite an advertisement for the way of eating.

Also, as Chaffee points out, carnivore is a “fasting-mimicking” diet, so you never have to fast (though you’ll probably not want more than two meals a day after acclimating. Meat is filling.) Just eat when you’re hungry, until comfortably full.

If you don’t like medium-rare steaks, bacon and eggs, grilled (clean) sausages, or butter, probably not the diet for you. Those are my favorite foods anyway, and when I can find them at a butcher’s, chicken skins, which I bake until crispy and eat like bacon.

#18

I’m psyching myself up to do this too.

Looking forward to it actually. I just need to get over my addiction to mushrooms and peppers…weening myself off them!

(Little Miss Scare-All) #19

Yessssssss I love rowing! When COVID hit, a lot of gyms went out of business, so they held auctions to liquidate their equipment. I got a great deal on a barely-used commercial grade Matrix rower. Since the gyms were all closed at the time, my being able to maintain my HIIT workouts with the rower was the key for me to continue to lean up when so many others were putting on the Quarantine 15.

It’s one of the best pieces of gym equipment you can get because it tones your whole body, strengthens your core and expands your cardio endurance, all while being lowwww impact and correcting your posture in the process.

Once you have been using it for a bit, you develop variations of hand grip, seating angle, pulling angle, that helps you target all kinds of areas in your back, shoulders, chest, abs and legs. I often use it almost like a Pilates Reformer to go for target toning. But no matter how you use it, it’s an amazing workout.

I’m all about low impact high intensity for my HIIT. My rower is my go to. I also use the Jacobs Ladder at the gym. It’s hard to get anaerobic without pounding on joints. I used to run sprints and stairs for HIIT but it hurt my hips and overall makes me feel like ass. When I’m done rowing, my core and back feel strong and nothing hurts me. Did I mention I have the lower back from hell? Yeah, well, I do. And ya know what? No pain.

Do I sound like a commercial yet?

#20

A wee bit LOL.

But sure who doesn’t?