Focus on the big picture

[ArtMeursault]

I keep noticing people trying to hold on to their non-keto lives.

[RobC]

I think this post is generally good and the “big picture” should be focused on a bit more than it sometimes does.

But, I would move away from the term “zero carb” as this, to some people, means Carnivore.

I think the best treatment of carbs is often (or used to be often) mentioned on the 2KD podcast.
That is that carbs should be “incidental” carbs - that come along in some whole foods, like broccoli (not processed foods, shakes, bars etc.).

That is much better than letting people who have dieted most of their lives have a 20 gram “net” carb “allowance” - which with enough creativity and label games can actually hinder all sorts of what would otherwise be great progress.

[SomeGuy]

…And while I know this is the KETO forums, everyone and their dog knows that KETO works best with IF…

@ArtMeursault With all due respect, neither I (nor my dog) knows that keto works best with intermittent fasting. Might it depend upon what one is trying to accomplish through a ketogenic diet? But I’m always willing to learn. Can you please point me to any studies you’ve come across that demonstrate that keto works best with IF? Thank you in advance.

[Deary75]

I understand the point. I honestly am on day 13 of keto, but 7 days of strict ketogenic diet using carb manager app. And yes, 0 carbs when I enter my foods and exercise at the end of the day is nice.

“but day 7 strict ketogenic diet using carb manager”(edited part, oops).

[PaulL]

Fasting is not required with a ketogenic diet. In fact, a ketogenic diet mimics fasting in key ways.

[carolT]

And while I know this is the KETO forums, everyone and their dog knows that KETO works best with IF.

While it’s not required, it does happen spontaneously for a lot of people. Anyone who wants to try it can look through the fasting forum for info and experience in that regard. It does sound a bit daunting to some people before they are adapted and don’t have reduced appetite yet. All this being in the context of keto for weight loss and/or metabolic health.

But in general, we’ve all be sold a load of BS when it comes to eating every 3 hours to maintain blood sugar.

[SomeGuy]

Joey - it’s common sense. Your bloodstream can hold 5 gms of sugar at any one time, the only way to increase that capacity is to deplete the cells, bloodstream and liver of glucose and glycogen so you have extra ‘surge capacity’ for errors in calculating consumed carbs. Additionally, all of the benefits of autophagy.

Joey - do you have Google where you live ?

Here’s what the Google says - Only difference will be when you go look it will now say 9,200,001 results. Guess I wasn’t the first.

@ArtMeursault Thanks for your reply. A brief response:

1 - Hopefully we share the belief that commonsense does not equal science.
2 - Yes, we get Google where we live. I dare say, it’s brimming with facts

Wishing you all the best.

[JohnH]

Agree with much of the message, though the tone of delivery could use some polishing.

Fasting is not required, but makes things work much better, even if that is just the 5-hour periods between meals where you don’t snack.

Striving for zero carbs is not required, but sticking to just the very low carb greens and vegetables as your only source of carbs makes a huge difference for me. When I just eat salads, broccoli, asparagus, avocados, etc as my source of 20g of carbs, everything works great.

When I try to add in things where I have to read a label to determine the total or net carbs is when I tend to stall out - or where I eat nuts as a snack rather than as a measured ingredient with something else.

I have not found daily intermittent fasting (i.e. time-restricted eating) to be mandatory. Though my work week usually results in me eating only breakfast and dinner and skipping lunch, so I get a mini-fast during most of the work day.

[PaulL]

I wrote “not required” because it is entirely possible to achieve any of the goals of eating a well-formulated ketogenic diet without fasting. I don’t want newcomers to get the impression that if they are not fasting, they are “doing keto wrong.”

Furthermore, what constitutes “better” is highly context-dependent, and people adopt this way of eating for a variety of reasons. Someone on a ketogenic diet for specific health conditions might in fact be better served by not fasting, whereas someone with different goals might find fasting to be extremely helpful.

In general, it is self-evident that categorical statements, while highly satisfying to make, run the risk of falling afoul of edge cases. Since edge cases tend to be serious, where human health is concerned, I would urge a bit of caution here, that’s all.

[beccs]

though the tone of delivery could use some polishing.

Ya think?

[ArtMeursault]

though the tone of delivery could use some polishing.

You’re right. I have a dozen fat friends and relatives that are dying. Buried one less than a month ago. 3 this year. And I look around here and see people trying how to figure out how to not do KETO while feigning an interest. I am frustrated.

It’s so damn easy when you stay focused on the major points and like any evangelist that just found their new messiah I want to spread the good news.

The sad thing is - I’m late to the game, 99% aren’t even playing and like most things in life - we’re on our own.

Did any of you guys ever write a top 10 essential rules of KETO? Because I’d just like to share that and be done with it. I’m late for lunch now.

[ArtMeursault]

Fair enough.

[ArtMeursault]

I dare say, it’s brimming with facts

And an equal amount of BS.

The challenge today is not getting access to knowledge, it’s filtering it, filtering the noise.

[amwassil]

With regards to ‘fasting’ of the ‘intermittent’ type. Many/most people used to do it all the time. Only it was called not eating between supper and breakfast which, depending on timing, could be anywhere from 10-12 hours daily. It was considered normal. When I was a child* being allowed a glass of milk and a cookie before bed was a treat, not a common occurrence. As late as the 60s, the Roman Catholic Church required a minimum of 12 hours fast prior to communion. So intermittent fasting is not some exotic behaviour invented by Jason Fung. It was the common eating pattern until fairly recent time when eating 24/7 gained vogue.

*The 1950s, not the Paleolithic.

[ArtMeursault]

Humans and their ancestors have been fasting for millions of years. It is normal to go days without food. It is abnormal to have 24 hour fast food and grocery chains every few miles.

[carolT]

Did any of you guys ever write a top 10 essential rules of KETO? Because I’d just like to share that and be done with it. I’m late for lunch now.

This is the most often linked basics for newbies:

Keto Is This Easy

Keto is this easy (aka Keto for beginners) Quick Version This is for Phase One—the starter phase. It’s still not complicated later, but this is the really easy-to-explain version which will help you no end. Eat under 20g of carbs a day (usually 20g net when starting, but for some people 20g total carbs works better). Don’t worry about the scale. All it tells you is weight, it tells you nothing about body composition, even the “smart” scales. Eat plenty of good food—fat and protein—whil…

[JohnH]

It is abnormal to have 24 hour fast food and grocery chains every few miles.

Even that is very recent, within my adult memory. Used to be there were very few places to eat open after midnight. Typically coffee-shops with breakfast type foods - meaning eggs, bacon, toast, waffles.

Even the grand-daddy to the modern convenience store chains, 7-11, was so named because it was open from 7am to 11pm. Not all night long.

I remember when some grocery stores started staying open later, since someone was going to be working in there stocking groceries anyway. And you still had to go find someone to check you out.

TV stations would go off-air at midnight, or earlier, and would play the national anthem. And about 6am they would power back on with their test pattern for about 30 minutes.

Until the advent of cable TV, pretty much your only late-night entertainment was radio, and then only a few stations.

24x7 everything world is a very recent innovation.

[BlueViolet]

Joey - do you have Google where you live ?

There’s that mean spirited sarcasm with which you love to spice up your posts

You do realize there are other search engines; do they have those “where you live” -on Samoa-?
I haven’t used Google since 2008.

[PetaMarie]

What is this Samoa comment? What does it mean?

[BlueViolet]

What is this Samoa comment? What does it mean?

Samoa has a massive degree of obesity in the population, very high percentage.

So since our Art has such an inordinate amount of dead and dying obese friends I surmised he lives there.