Taking the plunge - 3 day fat fast started at 8am today

fat
(Kimberley Demarest) #41

It definitely helps having your doctors in the know about all this, so hopefully you can try again. youe thyroid can really mess with you if it is messed up.

If your thyroid stuff is all ok then I suspect your scale that is measuring body fat may need to be recalibrated. The numbers seem weird for such a short time fasting and a fat fast at that should mean that your body is burning the fuel you are eating along with fat on your body. Did you test your ketones during this time? That might be helpful information to know.

But also, in general the body is pretty smart. If it needs energy the last place it goes is eating muscle. Here is a good article

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-muscle-mass-fasting-part-14/

on this topic from Dr. Fung and his IDM practice where his main focus for his patients (I am a long distance patient myself) is fasting and low carb high fat. I lift usually 3 days a week, swim a day and cycle a day. While fasting 3 days a week 36 hours each time. I have noticed only getting stronger and more defined. Also there is all the weight lifters who are trying to time their lifts at the 24 hour fasted mark, because that is when growth hormone is highest. (So they can get bigger muscle gains) I have a body composition from before I started with IDM just over 2 months ago. I probably should go and get another one. I have lost 11lbs and 4 inches in my waist. So it will be interesting to see how that has changed. Anyway, I suspect your scale was messing with you. :slight_smile:

(Teresa Driver) #42

Yes I had great ketone response. However, one also produces ketones by burning lean muscle. I have continued to research and think that possibly I would have done better with protein sparing modified fasting (100g of protein in 20g increments if I wasn’t doing water fasting. Especially considering that while your body may be smart, mine has definitely had the metabolic equivalent of a TBI and I’m pretty sure the wires are crossed somewhere.

#43

Could the lean mass lost be excess skin?

(Teresa Driver) #44

From your mouth to God’s ears. I wish I could say it was, unfortunately…

(Kimberley Demarest) #45

Hmm we may need someone with more biochemistry background to reply, I see on Wikipedia (who knows if it is right) that 2 amino acids Lucine and Lysine can only convert to Ketones. Then a few more can convert to ether ketones or glucose. Then the balance to just glucose. Of the lean muscle mass in humans, one website said that only 60% of that is made up of a group of amino acids that includes these Ketone makers.

So good questions would be:

  1. What percentage of the Ketones one makes are from amino acids and what is from fat, in a fat fasted state?
  2. Why is it that when I eat a bunch of protein (way over my regular amount) I get kicked out of Ketosis.
  3. Why does it seem that all the folks who do fasting for longer periods and get Dexo scans before and after lose a very low amount of lean body mass.

There is some metabolic path we are not understanding here.

I don’t know Teresa, my guess is that like you said your scale is a POS. LOL I bet it gave you bad data.

Did your body composition come back to the original numbers now that you are off the fat fast or did they stay the same?

(Teresa Driver) #46

I’ve just try to limit my protein to 30g per sitting, because I don’t even have to hit my macro of 96g to drop out of ketosis. I can’t speak about other people, only me. My body composition is slowly going back. I’m currently down to 48.3% body fat as of this morning, but I am continuing to gain weight. I have just decided to quit monitoring anything but my macros until after I am done with the endocrinologist because, frankly, at this point it’s starting to affect my mental state. I have been depressed beyond what the Prozac covers since yesterday between frustration and the feeling that some of the people who have responded to me think I MUST be screwing up because it’s not working for me.

ETA: That 30g per sitting is 3 meals at 30g each. Not 90g of protein in one shot.

(Kimberley Demarest) #47

Well I don’t think you are screwing up, I think you are trying to figure stuff out for your body. Besides, you taught me something new, I didn’t know some amino acids can make Ketones. So I appreciate that you have posted this!

Eh, I would take what anyone says as a chicken bone. Eat the meat and spit out the bones. :joy: It is often said that when it comes to Keto, the same percentages of stuff works for one and not others. We all have varying levels of insulin resistance and all that. Hang in there, you will get this figured out, and hopefully know more once you talk to an endocrinologist! :smile:

(Teresa Driver) #48

Thanks for the encouragement. Keto is my last ditch attempt before I start the process to get bariatric surgery.

(Daryl G Jackson ) #49

Seeing, smelling, thinking of sweet, savory or salty food can trigger an insulin response. Ever heard of Pavlov’s dogs? It’s a cruel trick but one that may have helped our ancestors in some way. Consuming though would get the biggest response.