Tactfully pushing the subject

(Consensus is Politics) #1

Time for me to chime in…

I started Keto 23 months ago. I did it because the V.A. (Veterans Association) hospital had Dx me with type 2 DBM, with a BG level of 594, and an A1C of 11.8%. Six weeks of their nutrition classes, meds, suggested foods (a high carb diet) just wasnt working. So i took my life in my own hands and did some simple troubleshooting (being a troubleshooter by trade). Long story short, I rediscovered the Ketogenic way of eating.

After two weeks, and getting over the shock of the miracle, I began mentioning it to people that looked like T2DBM to me. Usually in the snack section of the grocery store. I’d see someone eyeing the “diabetic candies” and I’d ask them if they were diabetic (odds are pretty good the answer will be yes). I told them i cured mine. They would look wide eyed, and ask how.

Since then, ive probably spoke to several dozen strangers, and not once been wrong about “are you diabetic”. Until today.

A few days ago, a friend of mine called, asking me to come fix his internet. Somehow he lost his DNS settings. They were just gone. Blank. So I three in 1.1.1.1 and 8.8.8.8 and he was up and running again near instantly.

That gave us time for a chat. You see, it had been a few years since we last saw each other. We spoke in the phone but not face to face, for about 10 years i think. The poor guy gained 200 to 300 pounds. He can barely move. The Ketonian in me was screaming T2DM, so i brought it up in conversation.

He is also a Vet. Goes to the VA hospital for issues. He has a wound on his foot that wont heal. His dog stepped on it and he got an extremely sharp claw puncture. That was five years ago. He is also very pale from being indoors most of the time, but has the brown patches that to me scream diabetes, though I still dont know what it is, which I also had, I tried treating and never went away. They have now faded with Keto. These brown patches of skin are on the shins. Its as if the natural skin tone there is much darker. A brownish red. Almost like a tan, but a little more look likes it growing there. I susspect its got something to do with sugar, maybe? I often see it on the back of some diabetes patients necks.

He swears he’s been tested for diabetes. He says the VA says he isn’t diabetic at all. When asked about his A1C or BG levels he just says their fine, , but doesnt know the numbers.

He doesnt seem to mind talking about it, but gets bored with the details and the science and loses interest.

I think the VA is lying to him. Or perhaps he thinks since they dont tell him henis, he considers himself not?

Ideas? Thoughts?

(Failed) #2

Th VA doesn’t have any reason to lie to him, but maybe he doesn’t “hear” what they say or doesn’t want to know. In any case, diabetes diagnosis or not, will he listen to you and give keto a fair chance?

('Jackie P') #3

Show your friend this. Also Dr Jason Fung talks about the ‘long silent scream of the liver’, basically by the time you see a rise in blood sugar, you are very metabolically damaged. Diabetes Type 2 is a sign of disease, rather than a disease in itself.

This is so brilliant, I have listened to it a number of times, and it is the link I send people if they show any interest!
Good luck. Oh and well done you🙂
(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #4

Okay, so forget diabetes ! You know that doesn’t always have to be what kills a person, who is horrendous physical shape, and morbidly obese.
I’ll tell you what, I’m getting to be really bold about keto… Kind of.
Let me explain. With my job I deal with LOTS of strangers, and find lots of time to have random talks. Food often comes up. In fact, if I can see that a person needs some serious help, I will “bring up food”. My own food of course… maybe my big booming sandwich in my glove box, or the huge steak dinner I had last night, or whatever. That will usually open the talk for Keto. Now, whether that subject lasts for 2 minutes, or 20, I will always end it by saying, “I absolutely recommend that you take a serious look into Keto” {note, I NEVER tell a person they should do Keto} and then I recommend this discussion forum, Dr. Berg. Dr. Berry, or offer that they can message me directly… And then, they can just decide for themselves. But they should quickly find LOTS of people who have turned their whole lives around… defeated diabets, lost “hundreds” of lbs, etc. And the reason this worked for them when nothing else did, is because they were mostly able to throw out the whole willpower aspect, and finally be comfortable with the food they ate :slight_smile: Bam !
Then, I have done all I can do. My job is done :slight_smile:

BTW, I had an interesting talk with a very healthy young guy last week, who had just completed the Pacific Crest Trail hike {2,650 miles in a little over 3 months ! :O} Obviously in WAY better shape than I am. But he was a pretty small guy… I dunno… 5’8" 140 lbs ? And he told me that he had to eat almost constantly. He would eat sometimes on the move, but had to stop 4 or 5 times a day for a complete refueling. So I brought up Keto. And I explained that fat contains twice the energy per gram, as carbs, and that might allow him to go much longer (twice as long) between refueling. He sounded very interested in this. Again, I told him that I highly recommend he look seriously into Keto, and I could tell that he almost certainly would.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #5

Two possibilities: either he is MHO (metabolically healthy obese), or his serum glucose isn’t high enough yet to warrant an official diagnosis. Of course, it would be nice to know what an OGTT would reveal . . . :scream:

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #6

Paul, so your saying if he doesn’t have diabetes, he might be perfectly fine ???

I have a good friend who is 6’, close to 600 lbs ! He does NOT have diabetes. But he has had loads of other health issues, and unless he can beat his food addiction, he will die before he 40 :frowning:

(Annette ) #7

What you’re talking about is the result of venous stasis. It’s called hemosiderin staining. The only way a wound will heal when one has venous stasis is to wear compression garments. The valves in the veins of the lower extremities are incompetent. The fluid in blood leaks out of the veins and sits in the tissue. Get him to a wound clinic.

(Bob M) #8

My fasting blood glucose was not that high when I was on high carb. I think I was (am now) one of those people who have low morning blood sugar (it’s actually higher now on keto), but I wonder what my insulin or OGTT would show? I got an OGTT, but it after years of low carb.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #9

@Nett Like this ? I just looked it up and the pictures look like extreme versions of what I had which is less dark now.

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I have poor circulation in my leg, had this stuff for years but it looks better lately. I get something similar or the same on my forearms if I bump or scratch them.

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(Bunny) #10

I think the reason is because he has less to no visceral fat, that is why he is not diabetic or even insulin resistant, he is carrying all his fat on the out-side and he is thin-on-the-inside? He may eat a lot of eggs and possibly liver or is getting a lot of choline in his diet or his body just manufactures a lot of it (genetics)?

Morbid obesity is defined by amount of visceral fat that accumulates or populates around the internal organs not by adipose fat! (that’s how I think about it)

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TOFI

(Bunny) #11

Interesting almost looks like micro vascular circulatory issues (incl. calcification of major arteries) in the skin or something like that?

(Full Metal KETO AF) #12

@atomicspacebunny My major health issues started with atherosclerosis which led to my leg amputation and eventual renal failure due to small arterial damages in the kidneys effectively killing them off. I have had Hyperparathyroidism and elevated serum calcium for years due to dialysis. My calcium levels were so out of whack on dialysis that I was considered for a new drug trial for a calcium lowering drug but the trial was canceled and I got a transplant a few months later. This kind of went untreated after I got off dialysis, I guess they were hoping my parathyroid glands would calm down. Secondary Hyperparathyroidism is common with dialysis patients and often after transplant the glands start to behave normally. My PTH levels have slowly been decreasing but not fast enough for my liking. I have a CAT scan coming to examine the glands to rule out primary Hyperparathyroidism which is caused by a small tumor usually growing on one of the glands. It’s similar to T1 and T2 diabetes in that they are opposites, primary shows up as increased serum calcium on secondary as low calcium levels. I learned there is also tertiary Hyperparathyroidism which my doctor thinks is what I have but we’re going to confirm that. That manifests as high serum calcium as well. I may need to start back on Sensipar if the dropping trend is continuing. My serum calcium levels and dietary intake of calcium indicate that the haywire glands are causing calcium leaching from my bones for many years now. I have been working too hard to get an elevated calcium related disease, brittle bones and organ and arterial and veinous calcification. :confused:

#13

I think he’s just saying he might not have T2D or any significant metabolic issues. It happens. Some of us are just fat. I would be surprised if he didn’t have some elevated numbers at that weight, but they might still be within the range of normal. I was nearly 100 lbs. overweight and all my numbers were totally within normal ranges. It’ll be interesting to see what they look like when I’m a normal weight.

But as others have pointed out, that doesn’t mean he’s “perfectly fine.” He might have a lot of fat on his organs, he probably doing damage to his joints, he might not have great mental health, he might just be miserable because he’s fat.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #14

Yes :cry: He was already hospitalized for … I forget what it’s called when your tissues stop draining fluids… and had to have like 40 lbs of tissue removed from one leg. And the joint issues, of course. I’m surprised he can still walk, but probably only because he is a young guy, with a solid frame.

And I’m telling you, he’s a really good guy. He works with handicapped / disabled young adults, and everybody that knows him, loves him. Food addiction is “exactly” like drug addiction :cry:

#15

They don’t have any reasons to do a lot of the things they regularity do! Never met a person happy with VA treatment. Men are told our testosterone is “fine” when a 25yr has the levels of a 65yo, My brother and a bunch of his buddies could have got FREE lasik from them and they all went out and paid to have it done because nobody trusts those scumbags. They also couldn’t figure out my brothers constant headaches and just gave him something else every time he went into them, one trip to a non government controlled doc and he was good in a week. The VA is all the proof in the world that gov’t controlled healthcare is a FAIL! They’re everything that’s wrong with standard of care… and they’ll never be held half as accountable because they’re the gov’t.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #16

Well, barring other possible problems, of course. About thirty percent of obese people are perfectly healthy, just carrying a lot of weight. Carrying excess fat is not an accurate diagnostic of diabetes. That was one of my points.

The other was that your friend might very well be diabetic, without having actually been diagnosed yet. Doctors wait until serum glucose rises, whereas the late Dr. Kraft believed that it was possible to diagnose diabetes twenty years in advance, by examining the behaviour of the patient’s insulin in response to an oral glucose tolerance test.

That would result in a diagnosis of diabetes or pre-diabetes, because visceral fat is a major symptom of metabolic syndrome.

Here I beg do differ. The main difference between food addiction and drug addiction is that the substances involved in drug addiction are not necessary to the human body, whereas food is. Since total abstinence from all food is impossible, the principles of fighting a food addiction cannot simply be borrowed from the A.A./N.A. Twelve-Step model. Granted, eating a well-formulated ketogenic diet does a lot to restore control over one’s food behaviour, but it is not a cure for food addiction.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #17

Well, I guess one can make distinctions. I just mean to say, they can both kill you just the same.

(Consensus is Politics) #18

He has been wearing them. The VA is doung that at least. This kind of thing is news to me. The only time Ive heard of wounds healing so slow were because of diabetes.

(K-9 Handler/Trainer, PSD/EP Specialist, Veteran) #19

Why won’t people believe us who served? They ARE the red tape. Everything is biased towards disproving the maladies that we acquired while volunatrily serving. Broken promises is what it is.

While on active duty, the running joke was, “Hey my arm is broken, and my leg won’t stop bleeding.” The doc says, “Well we can’t prove that it was caused by your military service, so here’s some motrin. And change your socks it will make you feel better.”

The only people I met that were happy with it, were the ones who never had combat deployments. They were just happy their after-service care was free, but they didn’t need the heavy duty treatment most of us try to receive.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #20

Diabetic wound care is a big thing. Usually starts with gangrene developing in the toes from a small nick stubbing the toe or a bad job trimming toenails. Most diabetics need regular podiatrist care for their toes to avoid injury. And many use big foam shoes after things start getting bad. Most amputation is due to diabetes because of wounds that won’t heal. I had gangrene on my big toes for two years from atherosclerosis, when my right leg was amputated my left foot healed. I was not diabetic back then but probably insulin resistant and heading towards diabetes. :cowboy_hat_face: