" Gardner and his team gathered a group of more than 30 individuals and assigned them to two different diets, each one for eight weeks."
August 11, 2020
Oh boy
Amongst other info in the study
30 individuals?
Geez
Swapping out red meat for certain plant-based meat alternatives
OldDog
(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.)
#3
Another unexplained observation:
But something peculiar happened when the groups switched diets. Those who transitioned from meat to plant had a decrease in TMAO levels, which was expected. Those who switched from plant to meat, however, did not see an increase in TMAO.
Why didn’t they make it more revealing by removing grain and sugar ingredients for everyone?
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#4
Your answer:
“It was pretty shocking; we had hypothesized that it wouldn’t matter what order the diets were in,” Gardner said. It turns out that there are bacterial species responsible for the initial step of creating TMAO in the gut. These species are thought to flourish in people whose diets are red-meat heavy, but perhaps not in those who avoid meat.
Any time you involve bacteria, all bets are off. No one knows how those work.
And it doesn’t seem to me (though I haven’t read the actual study) that they kept all variables the same.
I’ll have to see if I can get a TMAO test, since I eat a (very) meat-heavy diet. Though all other inflammation markers (CRP, ferritin, etc.) are low.
Ugh, TMAO is just so…anti-meat:. There’s so much wrong on this page, it’s hard to know where to start:
MarkGossage
(bulkbiker)
#5
I think once you read the naming convention of the study you can tell immediately what the results were destined to be…
SWAP_MEAT
Study With Appetizing Plantfood - Meat Eating Alternatives Trial
And looky who paid for it
Nothing to see there obviously…
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#6
Yeah, if you throw a bunch of sugar on top of saturated fat TMAO can be bad (deadly)?
Remove the refined sugar from the diet and vitamin K & D can transport calcium to the bones and teeth where it belongs as phosphorus (bones and teeth) always opposes calcium in the presence of high glucose, so it just floats around in the blood stream and sticks the the arteries because they lack proper long-term Vitamin C levels.
image link”…In particular, the researchers measured the levels of a molecule, trimethylamine N-oxide, or TMAO, in the body; TMAO has been linked to cardiovascular disease risk. They found that TMAO levels were lower when study participants were eating plant-based meat. …” …More
What is very misrepresented in the wording of the study is the “refined sugar factor” being the determinant of the TMAO factor. So the reader walks away with this idea that only plants are good and saturated fat is bad?
lfod14
#7
You made it further than me!
I stopped here
The small study was funded by an unrestricted gift from Beyond Meat,
brownfat
(Todd Allen)
#8
Fish highly recommended for heart health are one of the best sources of TMAO.
Tmdlkwd
(Troy)
#9
Funny sorta 
TMAO
We Need to look at The ( article ) source and who paid that I know
I was literally, just reading this right now
https://nutritionfacts.org/2020/08/13/what-explains-the-egg-cancer-connection/
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#11
The only (and I do mean only) way to lower TMAO or to neutralize it is with cruciferous veggies especially Brussels Sprouts and is the #1 TMAO neutralizer that literally eradicates it by inhibiting the FMO3 enzyme.
”…TMAO is formed after you eat foods containing a substance called choline, which is a nutrient found not only in red meat, but also eggs, fish, and poultry. As bacteria in your gut feast on the choline, they produce a substance called trimethylamine (TMA). Your liver takes that TMA and converts it into TMAO.
But the interesting thing about this process, says Dr. Manson, is that the more red meat you eat, the more of these meat-eating bacteria your body produces in your gut. Exposure to red meat changes the gut flora. “It essentially grows more microbes that can metabolize meat,” says Dr. Manson.
image linkIf a long-term vegetarian without high levels of these microbes inside their body eats red meat, they will not initially be able to synthesize TMA in the gut or convert it to TMAO in the liver. That means they likely won’t have the high TMAO levels seen in people who regularly eat red meat — at least not at first. But if they continue to eat red meat, over time their bodies could develop more of the microbes that produce TMA, and their TMAO levels would likely rise, says Dr. Manson. Research has also linked some types of fish to higher TMAO levels, but fish have other health benefits that may offset the risk, says Dr. Manson. Poultry, eggs, and dairy foods don’t appear to have the same effect on TMAO levels as red meat and fish, she says. …” …More
DIINDOLYLMETHANE: is formed in the body from plant substances contained in “cruciferous” vegetables. These vegetables include cabbage, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, and broccoli.
MarkGossage
(bulkbiker)
#12
Poor you…
Nick Mailers poem always comes to mind here
"TMAO spikes our hearts
When from meat that’s red it darts,
But drawn instead from veg or fish
It grants us each our live-long wish!"
AuntJane
(Jane Srygley)
#13
OMG Beyond Meat is so scary! The ingredients are just a big NOPE! Good catch checking out who sponsored the study 
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#14
Ha!
See this table too:
https://twitter.com/AnnChildersMD/status/1293948707210006528?s=03
(I THINK this works, but I can’t get Twitter while at work.)
Note the high TMAO values for certain veggies and fish.
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#16
Nice to know you can block TMAO with Cruciferous veggies if needed or ever proven to be bad by direct correlation but TMAO is probably a bio-marker for mid stage or end stage disease but not the cause nor effect?
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#18
That’s always the issue: which came first, the chicken or the egg? Causality is always tough to determine.
But relying on one marker to say that fake beef is better than beef is ludicrous.
anon81060937
#19
@ctviggen
There is the undeniable correlation between animals eating large animals and having the shortest lifespans. Too much heme iron or bioaccumulated toxins from large animal meat?
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#20
If you eat too much of it, yes, sensible portions and variety of other food categories?
Now we have vegans who are trying ‘save the animals‘ and those who only eat meat which is too good to be true, too much of any one food can do the opposite to the balance of your health and vitality?
I eat for my own nutritional needs guided by sound science and wise dietary choices not for the sake of a cause, everyone wants their way to be the only way, humans are diverse omnivores and can adapt to anyway of eating but then the question becomes; ‘how long do you want to live?‘
”…However, it is also worth noting that heme deficiency can cause serious diseases in humans, such as anemia, porphyrias, and Alzheimer’s disease. …” …More
MarkGossage
(bulkbiker)
#21
Just trying to see which of this lot eat large animals…
Hazard a guess at most of them being vegetarians… oops.