Surprised i am in Ketosis, MCT oil effect?

ketones
(VLC.MD) #1

My LCHF/fasting was a June / July thing. I have been LCHF since then, but pseudo non-compliant for a month. Not eating white things in any quantity but not under 20 carbs. 3 times I tested my urine … no ketones.

But i’ve been tightening the reins for say 5 days but I figured I wasn’t in ketosis (as measured by strips) as I wasn’t on Monday.

I ordered some exogenous Ketones Monday for some experimenting. I am going to give some to my mom for health reasons and I am going to try some too. For me, I wanted to see how fast I would start spilling urine ketones and how much. So I wanted to test every morning until I started with the ketones as a baseline. Much to my surprise, here were my strips …

minutes
keto.strips.15.seconds.vs.5.minutes.jpg1331×998 614 KB

I wonder if I just have been keeping my carbs too low ? The only thing I did different this morning was have 2 tsp MCT oil and 2 tsp regular butter in my 2 coffees. I haven’t had MCT oil in a few weeks before this morning.

Other notes: The bottle says read the results in 15 seconds. If you wait too long, your ketosis level will appear more elevated than it really is. (I am going to re-read the instructions)

This kinda wrecks my exogenous ketone experiment. C’est la vie.

Is it possible the MCT oil made the strips purple ? I’m guessing not really. Im not fat-adapted because of my carb non-compliance.

All help / ideas appreciated.

#2

Spending your money on a blood ketone test meter instead of exogenous ketones would’ve been a much better investment. The fact that the urine strips are worthless cannot be emphasized enough.

(VLC.MD) #3

How so ?

(Anderson Herzogenrath Da Costa) #4

I think the MCT oil was turned into ketones and as you don’t need it for energy (since you have glucose) you’re peeing the ketones.

It’s pretty much what will happen with the exogenous ketones. You’ll not be able to use it efficiently for energy when you have glucose to fuel your body.

(Anderson Herzogenrath Da Costa) #5

The strips measure the excess ketones being dumped on the urine, while blood ketone meters will give you the ketone level on your blood stream.

For someone doing keto for a while that is adapted to use ketones efficiently there will not be much excess and the strips might give you false negatives.

#6

Once fat adaptation starts you won’t be losing ketones through urine any longer. It’s been well covered on here and in many of the keto books I’ve read. The change you saw with the addition of exogenous ketones was the result of you literally pissing your money away. Blood meters aren’t too bad price wise, and if you like to experiment/document they are pretty fun.

(VLC.MD) #7

Ketone strips were the same this morning.
I dont think it’s possible that yesterday’s MCT oil made my urine ketone strips positive today.

I feel in ketosis today as well. Got up at 5am. Not hungry. I am going to try to stay in ketosis as long as possible. I’ll see what my urine strips do.

Q: Surprised i am in Ketosis, MCT oil effect?
A: Nope.

(VLC.MD) #8

I wonder when that happens for me ? Time will tell.
I’m going to research Fat Adaptation … is there a book you suggest covers it well ? I dont think the Fung Books I read covered it (admittedly I didnt read every page of either).

(Carpe salata!) #9

I think you covered it, not being hungry, good energy levels… you were probably running low insulin levels before going into keto. Those people who go keto to reverse their insulin resistance and HbA1c generally have a harder time with adaptation and keto 'flu. Good for you! :smiley:

You’ll still probably find the peesticks reduce as you stay in ketosis and get fully adapted.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #10

Have you read Dr. Phinney’s and Dr. Volek’s book, The Art and Science of Low-Carbohydrate Living? You might find it helpful.

(VLC.MD) #11

No I haven’t. Thanks for the suggestion :smiley: . It’s definitely on the top of my list when I finish Fung’s fasting book. I LOVE the title. As a scientific person learning about nutrition, after having been force fed bad information my whole life (Food guides, Diabetes Association, etc.), I don’t really believe anything ! But I am listening. And experimenting, both on n=1 and others.

(Arlene) #12

This might be my favorite quote so far on this forum.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #13

The thing I like about speakers like Dr. Phinney, Dr. Volek, Dr. Lustig, Dr. Attia, and others is that when they talk about this way of eating, they back it up with data from randomized, controlled studies, and not with unsubstantiated wild assertions. Their data-based approach works for me.

(Jacob Wagner) #14

Are you sure? It takes months to become fat adapted, it also takes months to adapt back to carbs. That is why people who are fat adapted are said to have metabolic flexability.

–Jacob

#15

Keep researching, there is a lot of info out there. You just gotta find the stuff that speaks to you. I’ve been on the hunt for all the keto and fasting related info I can consume for almost a year. The problem with that is I don’t always remember where I learned what if someone asks. But since I try to make sure sources are credible before I read them I am confident in what I “know”. I’m pissed, I have been lied to my entire life. As a result I’ve been fat most of my life. Now I’m on a mission to make things right, and a big part of that is throwing out all assumptions and existing beliefs.

As for the fat adaptation part, I’m not sure there is a specific way to measure it. If there is I haven’t seen or heard of it. What I can say is it took me the better part of 3 months to get there. I could feel it. There are signs but since they vary from person to person it’s almost like you just gotta be there. For me a big one was feeling 100% normal not eating for most of the day The lack of cravings was also and indicator I picked up on, as was the sometimes comically small portions that made me stuffed.

(VLC.MD) #16

Nope.
I’m also just learning about the term fat adapted.
It is one of the most popular concepts on this forum.
I’m at the stage where I am trying to do 3 things to start:

  • how do people defined Fat Adapted
  • what proof is there of it
  • How would knowing the details of what fat adaptation is help be a better keto’er

Which puts it on my skeptical list from the start
:slight_smile:

Admittedly I find the concept of Fat Adaptation compelling, at least as I understand it so far.

(Edith) #17

Fat adapted means your body has made the necessary changes to use fat as it’s primary fuel source. These changes don’t occur over night. That is one reason people have higher ketone readings when they first start the ketogenic diet. Ketones that the body can’t use, yet, spill over into the urine, and there is also extra floating around in the blood. Once you are fat adapted you use the ketones more efficiently and you will have much less excess ketones or none at all in your urine. That’s why the urine test strips become less effective over time. Your blood ketones may also end up being lower, but as long as they are 0.5 mmol/L or higher, you are still in nutritional ketosis.

Fat adapted also means that if you fall off the wagon for a day or so and then get right back to keto, your body can adjust right away because it has already made the necessary changes for fat burning.

That’s the end of my knowledge on this subject. Others maybe be able to add more info.

Edith

#18

One thing that seems to be a mystery regarding this statement is someone like Jimmy Moore who swears if he cheats he’s out of ketosis for days despite being low carb for over a decade. There is a recent episode of LLVLC where him and Mark Sisson discuss this very concept. There is also a somewhat inspired thread on here about it.

(Edith) #19

Yes, on Keto Talk, he and Dr. Nally mention that the more insulin resistant one is, the longer it can take to get back into ketosis, sometimes up to three days, but it’s not like when one first starts the ketogenic woe. I don’t know why that is, though.

Edith

(Jacob Wagner) #20

I am not familiar with him, but for someone who is very insulin resistant I can see it taking a few days before insulin levels drop to the point where you can create ketones enough to provide your full energy needs.

That is separate from keto adaption (aka fat adaption). Adaption is a process that takes several weeks where your cells increase their capacity to use ketones instead of glucose for energy. Most of your body can eventually run 100% on ketones. Other parts, like the brain, still require some glucose but can still adapt to get most of their energy from ketones.

At the same time your liver becomes more efficient at producing ketones, and especially at producing beta-hydroxybutyrate.

The result is that even if you go out of ketosis for a few days, your cells still know how to function mostly or entirely on ketones.

–Jacob