Such a boat ride.. might as well give up

[benp]

Or maybe not… what other option do I have? Going back to lowFat hi carb? That’d open a whole new can of problems

Anyway this is mainly a rantpost. I don’t have much options besides keep going on an hoping for the whoosh. But it’s kinda frustrating that nothing happened after that last 48h fast.

All went well begin this year with keto combined with IF. But since the summer, my weight is fluctuating a lot.
My body composition has changed, much more muscular than my previous setpoint.
I’m discovering new bulging veins in my arms and legs. My belly is like a waterbaloon filled with those hydrogelballs you use for flower vases
And those tight fighting clothes and pants? They fit better than the 20 year younger me with the same weight.
And that chocolate bar or thise bread I had two days ago at that mandatory Christmas worklunch? It couldn’t kick me out of ketosis. (But I’m still feeling bloated from the carbs today) ( *I was hoping the carbblast would start the whoosh)

But still… it’d be great if there’s some downward movement in that graph…

Maybe I should try a fish & avocados diet for a few days… or would another 48h fast be better? Doubts…

[MarkGossage]

Are you eating enough? Extended fasts can be good but don’t forget the feast tht should follow them.
Also of course weight loss like weight gain doesn’t go in a straight line mine goes up and down a lot. Providing the long term trend is down (which it looks like yours is) then keep going… I was stalled for 18 months! Went carnivore to shift a few more pounds.

[benp]

After the fast I had like 3000 calories (couple packages of mascarpone too).
Resulted in a few extra toiletbreaks as usual after a long fast…

I don’t think the feast should be the missed tree calories of all those fasted days?

But I usually do 16:8/20:4 with around 2k calories averaged. This is maybe around 200-400 deficit. The graph not going down is reasonable, but going up is horrific…

[MarkGossage]

You list a huge amount of other benefits… why worry about the scale so much? Your clothes fit better so you’re not getting fatter… stop stressing and FFS don’t stop.

[Don_Q]

My body composition has changed, much more muscular than my previous setpoint.

Weight is an interesting data point, but you shouldn’t don’t take it too seriously. Personally I find my waist measurement to be a lot more useful. That’s the only measurement you need to calculate your bodyfat % with the US Navy calculator. It’s remarkably accurate for most people. Heck of a lot cheaper than a DEXA.

I care about my bodyfat %, not my weight. I measure once every week or so with a sewing tape measure. I don’t worry about the scale too much anymore and my sanity has improved as a consequence…

https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/navy-body-fat

[PaulL]

My body composition has changed, much more muscular than my previous setpoint.

If your muscles are bigger and your bones are stronger and you have less extra fat and your clothes fit better, why is your weight any kind of problem? Surely the point is to lose fat, not to change some arbitrary measurement. Would you rather lose 15 kg and look the same, or weigh the same but look 15 kg thinner?

I was hoping the carbblast would start the whoosh

I don’t think this works the way you think it does. Enough extra carbohydrate will raise your blood sugar, which in turn will raise your insulin, and the higher insulin will cause the extra glucose to be turned into fat and trapped in your fat cells. Is that really your goal?

[Weeverrm]

I kind of agree with everyone else if your healthy. My weight has been stable for months all the while I’ve been shrinking … which is weird by itself. if your continuing to lose fat eventually you will lose or start being the same size.

Another suggestion from Megan Ramos , not sure how much you fast but to stop. Eat three meals a day for a period of time focusing on FAT say 2-3 weeks. Making sure to start the meal with fat so you body sees the fat coming in, and speeds up your metabolism. (its the good times we have fat)

Then after a time, start IF, in maybe just short 24/36 hour fasts 2xweek. Making again sure to eat fat and 3 meals on eating days, and don’t calorie restrict.

[David_Stilley]

@Don_Q Interesting Nick, I hadn’t heard of the Navy calculator. I was flattered by my “Athletic” body type rating. Clearly an error there but I’ll take it and enter that into my dating app profile…

I saved a screen shot because I am getting a DEXA scan soon to check my bone density for osteoporosis so I’m anxious to compare how close they come.

[benp]

If your muscles are bigger and your bones are stronger and you have less extra fat and your clothes fit better, why is your weight any kind of problem?

Because (as illogical as it may sound) of three reasons:

1. There is this imposed limit of 100kg by manufacturers. I can’t use an electric scooter because the motor would turn off when the user is more than 100kg.
2. 15kg less, means I can sprint and stop faster and reach that sneaky tennis ball in time. Or my shoes might last longer than a year.
   But most importantly for me:
3. 104kg is the smallest number I was able to maintain when I was 18 (which is mostly fat at that time, unlike now). I once reached 99,8kg. So it’s a bit like the milestone I need to reach.

I don’t think this works the way you think it does. Enough extra carbohydrate will raise your blood sugar, which in turn will raise your insulin, and the higher insulin will cause the extra glucose to be turned into fat and trapped in your fat cells. Is that really your goal?

Actually, that is quite interesting. Especially with that I experienced with my carb blast.
Firstly, one of the most assumed “woosh”-triggers is carbloading. The idea is that the carb would turn into glycogen which in turn would bind the water in one’s fat cells.
After burning that up with keto, the water might be released: IE the woosh effect.

As dr. Jason Fung 2-compartment anology: where body fat is in the bank account, while glucose is the cash in the wallet.
If an long term Keto’er is introduced to carbs, would that “new cash” be put into the bank? Or would it first settle in the wallet? In other word: I’d imagine that your glycogendeprived body suck the glucose up to fill up the glycogen reserves.

In case of keto’er doing fasting, I could imagine that a large part of that cash won’t even reach the wallet, instead it’s used to pay the credit carb bills first.

That might explain why I wasn’t kicked out of keto. The body’s glycogen storage should be around 2500calories. That chocolate bar and those few slices of bread are barely able to fill up that gauge.

[benp]

Weight is an interesting data point, but you shouldn’t don’t take it too seriously. Personally I find my waist measurement to be a lot more useful.

Yeah, I’m happy that I’m able to fit into those size-36 jeans. But they’re still not “comfy” to sit in the office a whole day.
If according to Jason Fung, glycogen is cash, fat is the bank account. I think those pesky waist fatcells are more money invested in long term deposits or ancient stocks… Losing those 10kg should reveal some abs.

[KetoSnaps]

I hadn’t heard of the Navy calculator. I was flattered by my “Athletic” body type rating.

I’ve just had a go at this! The Navy calculator puts me as ‘acceptable’, with 50kg lean body mass and 29% fat.

The YMCA one, however, (with only 2 variables) puts me at 59kg lean body mass, 15% fat and ‘athletic’!

My bathroom scales tell me my body fat is 20% and my BMI is 20.5.

I choose the YMCA data…

Didn’t dare go on to the other calculators on the site!

[Polly1]

Thanks for that online calculator - very reassuring!

[Ruina]

@Don_Q @David_Stilley I hate that navy calculator. It still has me at obese. I wonder if it is more accurate for men than for women.

[KetoSnaps]

I hate that navy calculator.

I felt it was a little harsh on me, too! Try the YMCA one on the same site - it’ll make you feel much better!

[lfod14]

That’s the only measurement you need to calculate your bodyfat % with the US Navy calculator. It’s remarkably accurate for most people.

Aside from people with near no muscle those things are almost always wrong. They’re a bad guess at best.

[Fruno]

+1 on “forget the scales”. Either you try tracking your body fat or you just use belt size.

Now, let’s assume for a moment that there is some fat to lose.

Don’t fast more than 24h if you want to lose weight. Your base metabolism is downregulated after roughly 3 days and stays low for a long time. Go one meal a day if you want to lose weight, but absolutely eat until you’re full and more. Make sure you get enough calories.

Try to change your macro composition. More fat or more protein, depending on what you’re eating. Maybe more low-carb nuts as a snack, or maybe go carnivore. Maybe eliminate dairy. Go with a changed diet for 6 weeks (without looking at the weight) and then see where you’re at. Different things work for different people, as evidenced by the croissant diet (https://fireinabottle.net/introducing-the-croissant-diet/).

Make 100% sure there is no insulin increase from artificial sweeteners, vaping or whatever.

Lectins and dairy products can be obstacles for weight loss (they were for me). Eliminate nightshades, peanuts, legumes, and generally check on lectin contents for veggies. Go easy on cheese and other dairy products.

And most importantly, don’t panic. Weight will take care of itself, with time

[ctviggen]

That might explain why I wasn’t kicked out of keto. The body’s glycogen storage should be around 2500calories. That chocolate bar and those few slices of bread are barely able to fill up that gauge.

I think this is true, particularly if you’re at all muscular. The body can suck up those extra carbs as glycogen. I also think this is why low carb people who are very active/more muscular/both will have higher blood glucose: the body figures out it needs to have higher glucose to fuel workouts and replace glycogen. Shawn Baker’s HbA1c is over 6 for instance, and I think it’s because he’s incredibly muscular (large glycogen sink) and works out a ton (large glycogen usage).

[Don_Q]

I’ve just had a go at this! The Navy calculator puts me as ‘acceptable’, with 50kg lean body mass and 29% fat.

The YMCA one, however, (with only 2 variables) puts me at 59kg lean body mass, 15% fat and ‘athletic’!

My bathroom scales tell me my body fat is 20% and my BMI is 20.5.

That’s pretty funny lol. I’m going straight to that YMCA website!

Make sure you read the measurement guidelines for each. One might have you measure the waist by exhaling before measuring over the belly button. Another might have you measure the waist by inhaling before measuring at the narrowest point. Those two measurements would be very different!

Aside from people with near no muscle those things are almost always wrong. They’re a bad guess at best.

The equation estimates definitely aren’t going to be perfect. Even DEXA has a margin of error of 10%! If you want precision, the only real option is underwater weighing, and even that isn’t perfect.

A bodyfat% calculator/forumla has one big advantage over just measuring waist though; it knows that “an inch is not an inch”. Circumference is an exponential function not a linear one. So if someone weighs 300# and loses 5 inches off their waist, that might be 50lbs of fat. If a 150lb person loses 5 inches off their waist, that might only be 15lbs of fat. Very different!

So how do you automatically take into account the difference between losing the first inch and each marginal inch? Bodyfat calculator. The equation is simple, and I can stick it right in my tracking spreadsheet.

[Don_Q]

I saved a screen shot because I am getting a DEXA scan soon to check my bone density for osteoporosis so I’m anxious to compare how close they come.

Thats a pretty enviable waistline! Nice work!

I’ll be curious to see how it compares to DEXA. Check out the Navy measurement methodology guidelines as well to get the best comparison. Where you measure and how you measure makes a big difference.

I’d guess the Navy calculator is about as accurate in estimating bodyfat % as a BMI scale for most people (that may be faint praise…), but its free.

Keep in mind also that DEXA isn’t that totally accurate either. This is a really great article on the accuracy of DEXA. The important part is at the end where it shows you what to do to make DEXA results as accurate as possible, and to be able to compare one DEXA scan to a subsequent DEXA scan. It’s really not possible to compare 2 different DEXA scans otherwise. A person can easily “gain” 15lbs of lean mass in 48hrs on two different DEXA scans if they want to. If you follow the guidelines for standardization, you’ll be in much better shape.

Cheat Your Body Fat Test

[Don_Q]

I hate that navy calculator. It still has me at obese. I wonder if it is more accurate for men than for women.

I felt it was a little harsh on me, too! Try the YMCA one on the same site - it’ll make you feel much better!

For the navy calculator, there is a different measurement methodology for women than there is for men. If I recall, there is a measurement for “hips” that the men don’t have. At any rate, it’s not perfect by any stretch. It does help accuracy to follow the measurement methodology as closely as possible (for example, do you exhale before waist measurement?).

They derived the equation by taking a few thousand sailors, doing underwater weighting, then correlating it to waist/neck/hips/age/height. It wouldn’t surprise me if the sample size for women was smaller than for men.

Body shape makes a big difference too. People carry fat in different places. I’m a “spare-tire” man myself… . The calculator is more accurate for some body shapes than others I’m sure.