Stunning (to me) admission about full fat versus low fat dairy

(Bob M) #1

Here’s the article:

image

Um, we’ve been eating low fat dairy for decades, and you’re saying there may be no reason to do so?

In fact, in school where I live, you CANNOT get full fat dairy. But you can get chocolate skim milk.

(KM) #2

Sorry to be Debbie Downer again, but RFK Jr. is considered to be a nutcase by so many people on both sides of the aisle. This nugget of common sense in the midst of a forest of sincerely questionable ideas is probably going to get pilloried as more crazy-talk, especially from the people invested in maintaining the status quo.

Speaking of, this must be making some headline news, as WAPO actually featured “the truth about dairy” in an Op Ed piece today … WRITTEN BY WALTER WILLETT. Good ^&*# grief. In what universe has Walter Willett ever told the objective truth about Anything.

(B Creighton) #3

The US dietary guidelines are a joke, which were largely implemented to save money on food stamps… [and spend tons more on medicaid and medicare!]

That may be so, but I’m so glad someone is in there finally stirring up the pot a little. I like RFK a lot, and I believe most of what he is doing will do us a ton of good. My dad was a skim milk drinker and got prostate cancer. Since I was a teen I basically stopped drinking milk, and went to yogurt, which for awhile was only available in low fat. When I could get whole milk yogurt, I started doing so. Now I eat goat yogurt, which is full fat. I have only lost weight since I began… I believe because I cut out all the sugar mostly. My blood pressure is down and my health markers are up… Hardly, a damning picture for full fat dairy. With the full fat, I am also going to get the full vitamins and nutrients nature intended. As a matter of fact I’m going to pick up my raw goat milk today. Been using it for years now with nothing but positive health effects.

RFK probably does have a lot of people mad at him, because now several states will not let people buy all the junk food items they used to get with their food stamps… The HORROR! There are influencers posting “Make America Sick Again” next to his picture, etc. The state of the food industry in America is in such an awful state, that I think anything RFK does will be an improvement.

(KM) #4

There are things he does I agree with, and things I don’t. I have been saying full fat dairy is a wonderful thing since I was 5 years old, no argument there! I just feel like he’s such a polarizing figure, there’s great potential for him to add to the mess rather than cleaning it up.

(Bob M) #5

True. I’m not sure what to do about Willett. Sometimes, he actually says stuff that makes sense, but most times he’s clearly in the vegetarian/vegan camp.

I’m definitely not anti-milk. Many keto/carnivore folk have the idea that milk is used to fatten baby cows, but I find it to be the opposite - I find it makes me full for a very long time.

Of course, when I was younger, I hated the thought of fat, so if I drank milk (which I did not do that often), I drank skim milk.

But, like everything else, they took a single idea (saturated fat is bad) and just applied that to everything I can’t find the study now, but I have a list of saturated fats that are in milk, and there are ton of them. Even and odd chain.

What makes me mad is that it’s not really new evidence (though there is some). It’s none of the old evidence was good either. We should get an apology and they should change the guidelines. It’s unlikely either one of those will happen.

(Alec) #6

I have heard on the grapevine that the saturated fat limits in the new dietary guidelines are going to be lifted for exactly this reason: to allow full fat milk into the diet guide.

This is hardly a breakthrough, but the edifice of lies is starting to crumble…. It won’t be long before the whole lot collapses.

My sincere hope for these new dietary guidelines (which are due for publication imminently) is that there is some recognition of low carb as a reasonable dietary pattern. That’s probably about as good as we can hope for.

#7

You say you don’t know other examples of that?

I can’t imagine how people can eat low-fat dairy, by the way. They aren’t dairy, they are abominations. Except my low-fat quark (all quark is pretty low-fat but this one is 3.5%), it’s surprisingly good. And my milk is only 2.8% fat as it’s enough for me. Oh and it turned out low-fat cream (10% fat, the sale was too tempting) is useful as well but I mostly use it in drinks so water is okay there. Sometimes the protein is more important for me than the fat.
But my country isn’t big on low-fat stuff anyway so we are lucky regarding that (so the people eating huge amounts of fat with their huge amount of carbs and it doesn’t always end well…).

I always have read that milk fat is pretty good, by the way. I mean, I have read/hear nothing before I started to research low-carb at the age of 35 and I tended to read pro low-carb stuff afterwards (I had a paleo phase but it was quick and it’s not like I believe what I read)… Dairy was very hyped in my childhood and we had no low-fat stuff, not like we have many today and even those aren’t super low-fat, usually.
BUT we have light butter. Totally maddening. I hate that some supermarkets have mostly that and it’s not even always noticeable if one isn’t very, very careful.
We have light pork loin too but lean meat is a valid things even if I can’t stomach it, usually. Tastes differ. But if we get the fat out of a fatty dairy item, it just ceases to be that item, it damages its imagine, flavors, everything. I am not even sure how low-fat dairy “works”. Super low-fat milk is just sugary water with a little protein, right? Not milk, obviously…

I hate super low-fat dairy with a passion, I don’t know if it shows. So whenever I read about them, I get a tad triggered.

Oh my god. I hope you can’t get low-fat dairy in schools here but I have no idea. We obviously had full-fat stuff but it was long ago, now there aren’t salt shakers in schools, I have heard… Yeah, bad, bad salt. But everyone must eat grains, fruits 5 times a day (normal people don’t even eat that many times…), vegs 3-5 times a day (green, red AND yellow too or something like that, it’s crazy. in my childhood, they didn’t see anything about the fricking COLOR of our vegs) and at least kids must consume dairy 3 times a day… If I remember well the last rules I have read. It’s totally wrong, I basically go against every little rule all the time and I know I eat well enough.
These started ages ago, I like to read old cookbooks, the ones where there is a lot of text beyond the recipes, they show something about how people in that era lived and thought, well, at least many and the official quides (unless the author was revolutionary but I don’t think I saw that ever).

I don’t know the quidelines or even customs of many country, do you know any where the guidelines are more sane?
Ours do have some sane ideas in them, it’s probably true for the US ones as well - but most ideas would be extremely damaging to my life and it’s not like I am some special snowflake outsider. My SO is a high-carber and he eats very, very differently from the quidelines too. I don’t even know how anyone could follow those detailed numerous rules, it must be stressful…
The rules ALWAYS forget that we aren’t all the same. We know some needs of the human body (even there are big personal differences), we should eat our essential nutrients but how and when and in how many meals, that’s quite individual and not as important as the guides apparently think.

What does that mean there? Here normal yogurt is very low-fat as it is yogurt, around 3% fat, maybe? But I am aware there are something lower for the fat-phobics (or IDK who), I don’t remember seeing that kind though, more than once at least.

Fat percentage? We don’t have goat yogurt here.

Lucky! I can’t get goat milk anymore but I had it a few times in my life and it was interesting :slight_smile: It has a twist in its flavor. I need the neutral cow milk for my drinks and whatnots but I could get used the occasional goat milk :slight_smile:

That’s true but it doesn’t mean I can’t drink it :slight_smile: I need to do it carefully as it brings much sugar and fat otherwise… But I need to be careful with basically everything as my energy need isn’t high. Milk and milk powder is worth it, hands down. In moderation.

Lucky! Satiation wise, it’s water to me. I probably very easily could drink 2 liters on top of my normal food (not at once - though it sounds easy for a not very quick meal, honestly - but during my eating window). I obviously don’t do that, thankfully my desires aren’t that high. A little is lovely.

Skim milk is something with very very little fat, right? We commonly just have 2 kinds, normal (2.8% fat) and low-fat (1.5% fat, I only put it into my coffee at a relative, it’s not yuck but not good). The third most common type (available in bigger supermarket chains, not in small ones) is 3.5-3.6% fat and I almost never saw any other kind. I don’t need the really fatty stuff so I don’t pay the usually significant extra price for it. If it’s on a great sale, sure, why not but I don’t notice a big enough difference.
When we bought raw milk, it had its original fat level, whatever that meant. It depends on the cow. Well that was amazing. But not just because it was fattier, the 3.6% one is nice but not THAT nice. I have drank freshly milked foamy warm milk too, yum… Mmm, down the memory lane…
I am very, very fond of (normal fat) dairy. Not all kind but many and I can’t imagine skipping them, only minimizing them, sometimes.
I have a whipped cream day today. I need some fat along with my lean pork anyway so I won’t be too shy. I focus on lean meat exactly to allow my fatty dairy in my diet even when I hopefully start to lose fat. I NEED my fatty dairy, it can’t be helped. I ate them all my life and don’t plan to stop.

Good luck to embrace normal dairy, lands of the super low-fat abominations!
By the way, how do they taste? As bad as I imagine? Except I denied their existence all my life (except my first decades when I had no idea they kind of exist) so my braincells stop instead of thinking about it. But I vaguely guess it can’t be good. I tasted low-fat quark once, don’t remember the fattiness but it was BAD even after mixed with sour cream or cream. The low-fat quark I eat now is surprisingly good. Maybe the old one was super low-fat…? I don’t willingly ate any other kind of super low-fat dairy in my life but it’s not like it’s easy to get that here. I am curious but still can’t buy things I know I would hate.

(KM) #8

The thing is, taking out fat doesn’t remove lactose. So many of these things taste peculiarly sweet to me compared to the full fat version. It’s not a pleasant sweetness in my opinion. “Full fat” or “whole” milk is 3.25%-3.5%. you can get 2%, 1%, and “skim milk” which is less than .5%

I’m guessing it will take another half century before the average American believes whole milk is better for them than 2% even if they do change the guideline. It’s been beaten into our heads for 60 years. My mother is always very proud of the fact that she’s “gotten herself down” to drinking 1% milk.

#9

Apparently we have 0.5% milk too, somewhere. 0.2%. 0.1%. Just because I never see it, it exists somewhere… I have found a few images of those but not many.
And some places still have bagged milk :smiley: When I was a child, milk only came in bags :slight_smile: (Or nothing and we had to bring our jar to get it but that was special.)

So they are sweeter. Well that can’t save them. The fat must be sorely missed by fat-lovers like I. What a crazy idea, to take away the fat… How come people was fine with it? It’s strange. Even with some pressure, people prefer eating tasty thing, many countries show it. I guess the US had it worse and when one is born into something and the parents were easily influenced… Ugh. Tragic.

#10

Let’s be real, if you’ve paid attention to him pre this administration and election, he was typically considered a nutcase on the right because he has historically been about clean eating, and going against the Monsanto’s of the world and being against our food supply being chemical-ized crap for many years prior to this, which nobody with a brain in their heads can disagree with.

Since he took a position with Trump, then the left who has historically been supportive of him, decides that he’s a “nutcase”, despite him not changing at all. The only thing that changed about him is the D after his name became an I.

Same exact cancel culture that Elon musk has now dealt with. He was the second coming of Jesus to the left UNTIL, he took up the position to head DOGE.

You’re either for food becoming food again, or you’re not, all it comes down to in the end. I vote for people, and I support people. Not political parties, there’s a word for people that let others think for them and tell you who’s good and bad, they call them cult members.

(KM) #11

I know I shouldn’t go here, please try not to take this to political extremes anyone. Most of RFK’s ideas about diet and true health for ordinary people DO resonate with me, but I am appalled at his vax stance, which I did not know about until after he was appointed. I have no idea if his position changed at that point or if I just never heard of it before, but I strongly disagree, IMO this is the opposite of a people-supportive position, and I don’t think pulling qualified people from NIH or CDC is particularly supportive either. I’m stating my opinion and I realize that YMMV, in which case supporting him makes more sense.