Struggling on keto

#1

Hello! :wave:

So I’ve been on the ketogenic diet for almost seven weeks now and I’ve always felt a little bit lightheaded, tired, and somewhat weak but weight training and cardio was never an issue for me.

Come week 5-6 and I suddenly feel extremely tired, weak (to the point where I almost can’t walk up and down from my stairs) and almost sick-like. Mind you the foods that I eat and the amounts of water, salt and electrolytes have not changed - well actually they have increased. And I also take my vitamin supplements (B,D3, Multi, Fish oil, C, and Iron)

I’m extremely lightheaded and can’t really walk for too long without feeling faint and I get these random muscle cramps and heart palpitations from time to time.

So to try and solve this I’ve eaten more fat, I drink more water with lemon and salt, I still go 4-5 hours between my meals and I’ve tried incorporating some low carb protein bread to see if it helps (it has helped before)

But at this point it’s becoming almost unbearable and it’s like my body is telling me that something is really wrong :grimacing:

I don’t know if I’m still in the transitioning period or if my body is even producing ketones anymore but my body had the same response the first time I tried keto (hence why I stopped and tried again)

My blood glucose is usually between 3,9-4,1 mmol/L but then I checked it again (2-3 days ago) and it dropped to 3,4 mmol/L

My carbs are: 25g, P: 70g and F:126g and my calories are around 1450-1520 (I’m a 20 year old female)

I functioned way better on healthy complex carbs and veggies and I’m just curious: Is this my body’s way of telling me something is wrong or just ‘normal’ on keto?

Side note: haven’t experience any of the health benefits of keto (yet) :weary:

(Rebecca ) #2

Welcome!
You don’t mention what you are eating. That is important. You did mention weight and cardio training. Maybe you aren’t eating enough to sustain such heavy activity?
When you say you go 4-5 hours between eating, are you hungry but denying yourself or really not hungry?
From what I experienced when I started, I may have felt a little tired and fuzzy but I was able to function. I ate Ketogenic Friendly Foods when I was physically hungry (not “head” hungry) and just took daily walks. My body just naturally found its way into longer periods of not needing food and wanting to be more active.
I hope something I have said helps or guides you. There are several on here that can offer valuable information, too…in fact that’s how I learned when I got started! I wish you well!

(Allie) #3

Drink to thirst only, eat to appetite. What does a typical day of eating look like?

#4

Thank you for taking time out of your day to help me! :smile:
What I normally eat is;
Morning/lunch: 2 eggs, 1 whole avocado, some olive oil and/or organic butter, some green salat like rucola or spinach, cream cheese, tofu and/or seitan, Greek feta cheese made from goat and sheep’s milk, black olives, and sometimes 1-2 slice(s) of low carb protein bread.

My dinner is pretty much the same but with few changes for example: 2 eggs, 1 whole avocado, olive oil, tofu and/or seitan, cream cheese, cheese, black olives, tomatoes, cucumber, greens like spinach and/or kale and veggies like zucchini, asparagus, and/or brussels sprouts

This is a rough estimate of what I usually eat in a day. It differs from day to day but this is basically the majority of what I eat. I also (but not that often) eat salmon. I remember to incorporate nuts like walnuts and hazelnuts and I sometimes add some organic, pure peanut butter made only from raw peanuts in their own oil.

I also don’t “starve” myself between my meals but just don’t find myself that hungry. But sometimes that can change too (usually days leading up to my period or if I’m feeling really hungry that day)

(Marianne) #5

Hello,

You will get a lot of opinions here, but here are my suggestions. First, can you tell us what your current height and weight are?

Breakfast seems okay. I always kept it easy and ate the same breakfast - two eggs with 2-3 bacon or sausage slices, a piece of melted American cheese on the eggs. For the first 4-5 weeks, I ate lunch as well - whatever I could pull out of the fridge. Chicken/egg/tuna salad with a little mayo, tossed salad with low carb veggies with home made dressing, left over hamburger or meat from the day before, etc. Dinner has always been a piece of pan seared meat, or chicken, sausage, pork, and a steamed vegetable with bacon grease, maybe a salad or cole slaw. I don’t eat nuts or peanut butter (too calorie dense for the amount you eat). I’d also ditch the protein bread.

I would recommend you eat this way until your body tells you that it does not need the fuel. You will know this by how long you can comfortably go in between meals. At that point, you can naturally switch to one or two meals a day, but don’t force it. Don’t snack. Keep the carbs as low under 20 as you can. Don’t be afraid of eating to satiety. I never concerned myself with calorie counting.

Until I became fat adapted at around 4.5 months, I would tire very easily with minimal exertion. Then, just like that I was doing heavy gardening one day and I found I had an abundance of energy and went all day without resting or eating. I thought that because I ate clean keto with no cheating that entire time leading up to it, I’d become fat adapted sooner, but that’s just how long it took.

Seven weeks is great. I hope you will hang in there.

#6

Well last time I weighed myself (21/7-20) I weighed 71kg and I’m 168cm. (Don’t really know how much that is in lbs, feet and inches :sweat_smile:)

I tried to keep my carbs at 20g but found myself more tired, weak and always hungry (to the point where I kinda starved myself to not eat as frequently) so I upped it to 25g which has helped. Is 25g too much? Note: I don’t always reach 25.

I will try to ditch the protein bread and see if it does anything but in my experience I found it to be helpful. But fingers crossed :crossed_fingers:

Thank you for the tips :smile:

(Marianne) #7

I would encourage you to eat more. You should not experience any problem making it from one meal to the next. Your fat and protein will give you more energy than the carbs. Don’t be afraid of eating or calories.

Best.

(Allie) #8

This is where you need to listen to your body and eat more of the right foods. You’re in the process of adapting to ketosis, your body does not yet understand how to properly operate on fats so you need to keep giving it more to help it learn. If you keep giving it carbs you’re just dragging adaptation out longer.

#10

Oh all right. I’ll try to lower my carb intake to 20g and see how my body responses to it.

Thank you!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #11

6 weeks in and still tired and lethargic indicate a couple of possibilities. The first is that you’re not in ketosis consistently. Cure that by dropping carbs even lower. Phinney and Volek say ‘sub-50’ grams of carbs as a starting point for metabolically healthy and physically active individuals. They do most of their work with athletes, which bears on that number. On this forum the recommendation is sub-20 grams net with the realization that some folks will have to eat even less, right down to zero, to remain consistently in ketosis, depending on the degree of insulin resistance one has to deal with. Not everyone experiences subjective criteria for being in ketosis. The only way you can objectively determine ketosis is by measuring ketones. There are 3 ways to do so available for home use. Initially, the objective is simply to determine the presence of ketones consistently. The quantity is a different issue you don’t have to worry about at start and unless you have some specific medical issue(s) likely won’t ever matter very much.

The second possibility is you’re simply not eating enough protein and fats to fuel your level of activity. I suggest you ditch the veggies/fruits (including the avocado and olives) for a few weeks and replace them with protein (more eggs, more meat, more ‘dry’ fish) and sat fats (tallow, lard, coconut/mct oil, palm oil, cacao butter) OR more fatty meat cuts. During this period also avoid all oils, yes even olive and avocado oils. Eat some ‘oily’ fish once or twice per week (herring, sardines, mackeral).

As already noted, you should eat sufficient that you do not feel hungry during the day. Hungry before a meal is OK, just your body’s way of reminding you it’s time to eat. But hungry otherwise is not OK. It’s your body’s way of telling you to eat more.

Hope this helps.

#12

I’m a pescatarian so I’m always trying to up my protein and it’s currently at 70g so I’ll try to combat my issues with more protein and fats.
Thank you for such detailed answer! :smile:

#13

You can try eating more. You don’t wrote you are perfectly satiated all day, you wrote “not that hungry”. IMO, you shouldn’t be hungry at all… I can’t possibly know what would help but maybe more food.
I don’t know if 25g carbs is much for you or not, you feel different over 20g, maybe it hints that you need to be lower? I let this the more knowledgeable ones to decide… I ate way more carbs until fat adaptation (and even beyond) but that was my individual case and I needed to go lower to get more benefits, I just couldn’t do it while eating plants and not even getting used to keto yet. So sometimes more carbs works, sometimes kinda works but not ideal and sometimes you need to go lower, maybe even for ketosis. Oh and some people should use total carbs for some reason, not net. Some food items can interfere in interesting ways… I probably would experiment with different food choices if there are other options. There always are. Some different macros, maybe your body feels better with more protein or something. I don’t know, everyone is different.

#14

Exactly it’s so different from person to person and the first time I did keto I went cold turkey and went straight from 120g+ carbs to 20g the next day which I shouldn’t have done (learned the hard way :sweat_smile:)
But I’ll try to go lower on carbs and see if it works.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #15

That’s important to know. Oily fish contain lots of PUFAs, although the ω6:ω3 ratios are better than plant PUFAs, you probably still want to eat them only a few times per week. So-called ‘dry fish’ generally contain more MUFAs than sat fats, which is OK, but if such fish are a major part of your diet, you need to ensure to get sufficient sat fats from other sources. My opinion is that on keto sat fats are very important both nutritionally and in the sense of keeping you feel satiated. For some, protein works for satiation, but I’d bet many of those folks aren’t eating enough sat fat so protein takes up the slack. But I won’t argue about it. Even carnivores eat lots of sat fat.

BTW, I’ll mention that in a couple other topics we discuss sat fats so if curious you can search for them for more info. One of my takeaways from those is cacao butter. I heartily recommend it as ‘keto snack’ food. Whenever you feel like you want something in your mouth, suck on a piece of cacao butter. You will very soon discover what all-day satiation feels like.

(Utility Muffin Research Kitchen) #16

There are a number of possibilities, and I’d do this:

  • Electrolytes are a concerns. You may not get enough potassium, a lack of potassium can lead to fatigue and other issues. Try to add a healthy dose of potassium citrate, and possibly magnesium citrate. (Don’t be shy, the RDA for potassium is pretty high. I’d use 2-3 teaspoons a day to see an effect.)
  • I see a lot of lectins in your diet. Avoid tofu, nightshades, peanuts (lectins) for a few weeks.
  • You’re not eating enough, from the looks of it. And add more variety. Different fatty meats, liver, mushrooms, berries, coconuts, whatever.
  • If all that fails, frankly I’d recommending eating carbs for a couple of days. Unrefined carbs like white rice or potatos, some legumes, maybe 100g carbs a day. See if you feel better. It will still be “low carb”, just not “very low carb”. And you will get some valuable knowledge from this experiment, regardless of the outcome.

Otherwise this is a complex issue. LCHF is not a dogma. Now this is not a popular opinion here, but there are a few people who do not well on a vLCHF diet. Some (very few) people have issues with their fat metabolism and have to eat carbs. There is no one-size-fits-it-all in nutrition.

People see amazing health benefits from LCHF, but keep in mind that LCHF is the “antidote” to metabolic disease. If you don’t have the disease, you won’t need the antidote. Our ancestors ate 15-20 percent carbs in their diet, and they were perfectly healthy. You’re young, you may be metabolically healthy, you may not need the “antidote” to a disease you don’t have, so an “evolutionary normal” diet might be fine (up to 20% calories as unrefined carbs, which goes by low carb or paleo, usually). Im not advocating a western diet of course, you should still stay away from all refined carbs like flour products, pasta, and especially sugar, along with all seed-based oils (canola, sunflower and the like with lots of omega-6).

Edit: Missed the pescatarian part. Then B, D and K2 vitamins are a big concern, you may have severe lack of vitamin B12. You’ll have to compensate with supplements and essential amino acids. Our ancestors ate a lot of meat, I suggest this talk from Mike Eades. Our bodies usually rely on animal protein, and if they don’t get it you’ll have to compensate. And I suggest to eat a lot of butter from grass fed cows.

#17

Oh didn’t know that! Thanks! I’ll certainly look more into it :sweat_smile:

(Utility Muffin Research Kitchen) #18

I’m not a big fan of snacks. If you’re hungry, eat. If not, don’t.

But cacao butter is great, for example as dessert. I do my own keto chocolate with cacao butter, you can put it on stuff like mousse au chocolate and the like. The effect varies though, I ate up to 100g a day and didn’t feel any more satiated. But I know that many people here report otherwise.

#19

Some people do a more drastic jump but yeah, I realized that I couldn’t do it one jump myself :slight_smile: I needed my low-carb times before keto to ensure I have only tiny hardships.

@Fruno: B12 should be fine, eggs are good sources, aren’t they. Essential amino acids may be fine, there are plenty of animal protein sources but 70g protein from everything including tofu and seitan, I can imagine it’s not enough… More fish and eggs then :slight_smile:

#20

In the beginning I kind of suspected that it was a problem with my electrolytes which was why I tried to increase them but maybe I’ve overlooked potassium. I’m struggling a bit on that part. Do you recommend potassium supplements? I’ve heard about electrolyte supplements but been too careful and quite frankly a bit scared that it would mess up my digestive system… Or do you have any tips on how to increase my potassium?

Thank you so much for your helpful reply! :smile:

#21

Yeah. I reached 254g fat on keto on a nice, very chocolate-y day without trying (I usually don’t use cocoa butter as it didn’t make it any better, just way more expensive. but I tried it, it has the same effect). Not satiating at all but nice :smiley: So it’s good for eating at a huge energy surplus without getting more satiated in my case. At least I know what to do if I am full but want more calories.
It’s very individual, almost everyone says fat is satiating for them while it’s not for me if it’s added fat or cream.

I eat snacks when I am still hungry or need food. If I want to consume something when satiated, I drink tea or coffee.