Strength Loss since going Keto

newbies
(Adam Volpe) #1

Hi everyone.
This forum is great and I LOVE the 2KETODudes podcast… Great job guys.
I’ve been doing KETO for about 2.5 months. I wasn’t (significantly) overweight (i’m 5’10 and was about 185lbs when I started), i’m healthy and quite active (train 4-6 days a week in Kung Fu, currently training for my Black Sash test in May 2017).

I started Keto really for 2 reasons:

  • the health benefits I kept hearing about (read KETO clarity and listened to various pod casts)
  • and thought it would be a great way to help prepare me and fuel me during my Black Sash grading (that is typically 7-8 hrs long with only 2 short breaks for water only - no food or nutrition supplements)

So the idea of being able to turn my body into a FAT burner to help me have an endless supply of energy during my very physically and mentally demanding Martial Arts grading seemed like a logical (and positive) choice.

Things started very good… I found the diet quite easy to adapt to (stopping my 1-2 banana a day routine was probably the hardest), and I found within a week, I had significantly more energy that lasted all day long and into the evening (my training often takes me to 10pm)
Like i said, i wasn’t really doing this to lose weight, although it wasn’t bad that i actually did lose 10-15 lbs - that didn’t hurt. :slight_smile:

The challenge, after about a month or so, I started feeling that although my energy and endurance was good, my strength (pushups, etc) was starting to decrease. Part of my requirements for my coming grading is strength requirements (85 push-ups of various styles and ~200 of various abdominal exercises)

Am I Crazy? with the amount of training i’m doing, should i be having more Carbs? most of my carbs come from veggies and I’m typically very successful at keeping my daily carb intake to less than 50 grams/day.

Should I start introducing more “good” carbs (fruits, starchy veggies) to help with strength and muscle growth? I’m just over 3 months away from my test and want to make sure I’m doing the right thing to keep (and regain) my strength while being about to take advantage of the benefits of Keto.

Please help.

-Adam

(Bart) #2

You should explore ketogains. They have a ton of info on strength training on Keto. It may help.

(Adam Volpe) #3

Thanks Bart… I’ll check it out.

#4

calling @Brenda

(Stickin' with mammoth) #5

Ideas:

  1. Monitor your macros and make sure you’re getting the right amount of protein per kilogram of body weight for you. Eat the form of protein you’re drawn to, the body knows.

  2. Consider the frustrating, yet completely necessary, possibility that you are going through a healing phase where your energies are being shunted to organ repair and detoxing from living la vida carb loca. Not much to be done about that one except stay keto, drink lots of water, and wait. It’ll pass.

  3. Sleep, dude. Are you getting enough? Are you waking up without the alarm? Muscles need grow time and most of that happens when you’re snoring. Similarly, don’t make the rookie mistake of overtraining, we’ve all been there.

  4. The body changes at its own pace. Plateaus aren’t something to “push through” or “eliminate,” they’re moments of clarity your body is trying to communicate to you. Your muscles are saying, “Hold up, we need you to do something different.”

Nothing’s gone wrong, you just need to read your own signs and make adjustments to optimize your system. Don’t worry, you’ll figure it out. Look how far you’ve come already! Black Sash, dude! That’s awesome!

(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #6

@Adamfoxx44
My first thought was electrolytes.
It is simply easy to be deficient.

Something as simple as lack of sodium can cause fatigue. The ketogenic diet is very diuretic and imbalances can occur until you’ve learned how to manage your salts well.
Sodium
Potassium
Magnesium
Calcium

For Sodium alone we need 3-5 grams a day. See "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance " by Phinney and Volek. Excellent guide. Good luck on your test!

(Jamie Hayes) #7

It would be interesting to see a typical day’s food intake showing the time as well.

Plus when you go to sleep and wake up.

Plus any supplements, if any.

(Peter Barney) #8

I’ve now been keto for almost 2years I experienced that same loss of strength early on, and it remained pretty much until 3 months ago.

As I was experiencing all the many other benefits, I concentrated on form and routine, worked on my run times put in the time in the gym and paid close attention to my diet. I made steady unremarkable gains, apart from my long runs getting alot easier even when fasted.

The last 3 months have just out of nowhere been a huge up curve, strength and muscle gain have just launched recovery time has become just a blink of an eye and my run times are tumbling again.

We are all different, I obliviously had quite a few systems to reset after many years of carb abuse, but now I feel full of health and stronger than ever.

(Dave) #9

Yeah I have been doing keto for 5 months… My absolute strength has gone down my relative strength is about the same… I have lost a bit of weight… I feel awesome so I don’t really care about the loss of strength… I suppose you see a lot of elite long distance runners on keto but not a lot of powerlifters?

(Stickin' with mammoth) #10

There are sizable keto subgroups at Bodybuilding, Flex, and Muscle and Fitness but the ignorance and misinformation run rampant over there, too, par for the course.

(Dave) #11

Who are some elite keto powerlifters? Top ten in the world in their weight class?

#12

I can tell you that I have been able to gain strength while on Keto. In short my weight has dropped from 190 to about 175 in 8 weeks. I am using the 5x5 program and have continued to gain and move up. I can tell you - that my gains are slower and perhaps my recovery is longer. BUT - I am older so it is hard to know where that is coming from. I have also fasted a bit - half dozen 36 hour fasts with no ill energy effects.

I think I am more tired after workouts than normal, but it passes quickly. I am finding that I sleep more as well sometimes 9 hours when I can. I am at 1.5 grams per pound or slightly more … it is hard to be that precise.

I agree with others, that when I feel a bit wonky taking some chicken broth from a bullion cube has really helped. I have been taking preworkout and it almost feels like an energy drink! I do supplement with a zero carb isolate protein after each workout. Others may differ on this but I think it is key to recovery and growth.

Also - the program is important as well. Specifically, as much as I hate them, squats need to be part of your routine a couple times per week. It is the dominate muscle group in your body. When it is trained I think you maximize the hormones and signals in our body to get out the “get stronger message” This in turn affects all the muscles in your body being worked. Focus on compound not isolated movements. Go as intense as you can. That has been my recipe - I have been at a long time. I think for a main cycle - the StrongLifts 5x5 program is tough to beat. I find it very focused and no nonsense. The app is decent as well. YMMV with that above.

Congrats to you and keep it up. I have not been total keto for as long as others but have been Primal and gluten free for about 3 years. I have been and active weight lifter for a couple decades and participate in endurance biking and rec running. Hope this helps.

(Stickin' with mammoth) #13

Competitive lifting doesn’t interest me so I don’t pay attention to it, but Google is your friend.

#14

Good luck @Adamfoxx44! I hope that you have turned the corner. May is approaching!

I am only a month in and my strength workouts never really suffered and are actually getting easier, which surprises me because I have lost 17 pounds so far and have room to lose only another 5. Perhaps that is because they are not very intense workouts.

My runs instantly took 30% more time and have not improved. My runs were quite intense. Now I am unable to run outside of the slow forever pace. I hope that this changes as I have my lifetime first marathon in May.

#15

dont worry about it. Its a non issue. Yes you lose strength. Keto and calorie restriction wont kill the muscle nuclei though.

its all about muscle nuclei. muscles loosing mass and reduction in strength are short term effects that are easily reversed in very short time.

My suggestion is to cut fat as long as you can until you cant stand it anymore then start creating more nuclei if you want you muscle mass to increase and strength to rise.

(Adam Volpe) #16

Hi @Pinnacle,
Honestly, i’m still working on it… I think what it is(was) is a combination of the physical changes from a different diet, combined with likely simply eating less. I don’t know how much (calories) I ate Before KETO, but now, I don’t feel like i’m hungry as much, but i’m wondering if i just need to eat more. So I’m starting to try that too.
The other Challenge has been that in the middle of all this I sprained my MCL (Grade 2 sprain), which slowed my strength training and feel like I had to start all over again…
On the bright side, the healing has been quicker than expected and the thought is that my Keto diet helped the healing due to the anti-inflamitory nature of KETO.

So in short, still not there, but just need to push through… not giving up! :slight_smile:

Cheers,

(Adam Volpe) #17

I think Sleep is probably my biggest downfall… I know i don’t get enough sleep (typically between 6-7 hrs /night)
That’s the next thing I’m trying to work on now that i feel the diet is under control.
Thanks so much for the great reply.

#18

yup, sleep is hard. i will say this though. When i am cutting on 72 hour fasts and still running and lifting my sleep goes to about 2-3 hours and I am fully charged. On my refuel night I sleep for about 6 hours.

For me I just accepted that sleep times change.

Best advice i can give is just pay attention to how the body feels on sleep.

Your going to find all kinds of tricks as you go with this. When i figure out how to trigger an adrenaline rush i will let you know.

People freak out avbout muscle loss though… especially bodybuilders. Its a non issue. You sound like an athlete. All your strength will come back within a week if your a worker (sounds like you are). Mass will also come back

(Adam Volpe) #19

OK… I thought I’d provide an update (I know, its a bit late). But everyone was so great with the support and feedback.
Strength came back - so that wasn’t an issue… I did get more sleep which I’m sure helped.
The results of my Black Sash grading were FANTASTIC. It was about 7.5 hrs long and during the grading, I felt better than I had for any previous grading.
I am about 20 years older and felt i performed (physically) just as good or better than most of the others.

If this (and the other benefits i’ve Experienced) isn’t proof that KETO is the way to go, even for athletes, i don’t know what is.

Thanks again to everyone for all the great feedback…

-Adam

(What The Fast?!) #20

What else did you change? Electrolytes? Added protein?