This is still eating fat to satiety. It’s not the same as trying to calculate the number of calories to eat. The first involves working with our body, the second, imposing our will on it. The latter approach tends to end badly. The body almost always wins, and even when it doesn’t, we still lose.
Stop telling newbies to eat more fat!
tdean
(Terence Dean)
#64
I don’t agree with that assumption at all, if I don’t limit myself I will eat more fat than I need and will not lose weight. I’m not hungry whether I eat 203% more fat than my macro tells me, and I’m also not hungry if I eat 100% of my macro. Sure if your signaling tells you to stop that’s good but mine does not. So in my case unless I do know how many calories or grams of fat I am consuming I will eat far more than I need to. The only requirement Phinney suggested is to make sure any reduction in dietary fat does not increase hunger. Which is what I do.
Bellyman
(Brian)
#65
I was born after both my grandfathers died. The man who kinda filled that spot for me had been a smoker before I was born but had quit a few years before I arrived on the scene. I knew him for probably 20 years. Though I do not believe he ever did smoke while I knew him, he said numerous times that the craving never went away. He often had a toothpick in his mouth just to have something there.
I guess for some people, the cravings do indeed go away. But for others, they never do.
Fortunately, I never took up either drinking or smoking but I would imagine either could be like torture to have to quit. Soda and sweet tea were difficult until I substituted my own homemade mint tea sweetened with only a hint of stevia. Carbs haven’t been a huge thing since we just don’t keep them around much anymore. But I think most of the ease of that has been substitutes that we find pleasant, i.e. cauliflower in place of rice, that kind of thing, which we like and enjoy.
Hope the cravings do eventually fall away for you, Paul. (FWIW, my adopted grandfather’s name was Paul.)
PaulL
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing)
#68
The people who achieve permanent sobriety or abstinence usually have some kind of spiritual experience that transforms their thinking. In Twelve-Step parlance, it is called “hitting bottom.” The people who try to deal with their addiction without hitting bottom often find it extremely difficult.
When we do hit bottom, the previously impossible becomes doable. Not to say that it becomes easy, you understand, but our mental outlook at least embraces the possibility, and we find sources of strength that we had never been aware of before. (When I say “spiritual” experience, this doesn’t necessarily imply anything religious, although it did in my case.)
By the way, heroin is considered one of the most difficult of the street drugs to kick. A number of recovering heroin addicts have told me that they found it much harder to get off tobacco (despite the protestations of the tobacco industry that nicotine isn’t at all addictive!). I am honored to share the name of your honorary grandpa.
xparis001
(Daniel)
#69
when I’m “still hungry”, I do the hard boiled egg test. I ask myself “Does a hard boiled egg sound good right now?” if it doesn’t, it’s the sugar talking.
crickette
#72
I think there is a general misunderstanding or misinterpretation going on here. It is my understanding that fat release the hormone that allows you to know when you are satiated, hence you won’t overeat. There is no need to count calories in the traditional way because some days you need more and other days you need less. So restricting yourself to, let’s say in my case the recommended daily amount of 1100 calories to maintain my weight would be totally unreasonable on the days I would break an extended fast.
No one is suggesting that eating too much won’t make you fat if you go beyond what your body needs. But the only way to manage this is through allowing your body to be the measure for the day not some arbitrary number. If you genuinely aren’t getting these “feelings” then I would hazard a guess that you have another underlying issue, maybe it’s not physical perhaps it’s psychological, it’s a very hard paradigm to shift.
Bellyman
(Brian)
#74
I’ve heard Dr. Ted Naiman say something similar, that some people really can eat too much fat. Apparently, he has patients that he’s encouraged not to eat so much fat because, in his opinion, it was impeding their weight loss. I’m not sure how much fat they were eating as I don’t remember if he ever said.
Pete_A
(Pete A)
#75
This is all very interesting. It brought me back to thinking back to my days eating whole Dominos pizzas in one sitting, then being debilitated on the couch. I ate way beyone anything resembling satiety. I knew it, and it made me sick, both physically and mentally.
Were all those carbs the culprit? Or now, having a range of daily fat grams that I know work, does that change my n1 dynamic so I’m satisfied? Or is the carb restriction itself doing it?
I have several arbitrary numbers, including calories, protein etc.Whatever the reason it works, I’m always pretty even through the day with what I’m eating.
PaulL
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing)
#76
Yes, your adipose tissue does secrete leptin, but in some people eating a ketogenic diet, this signaling mechanism appears to be permanently broken.
tdean
(Terence Dean)
#78
Nope I’ve lost 22.8 kg in 16 weeks and 4 days so I think I know a little bit about losing weight. Whether you believe me or not I don’t really care but if I do eat too much fat I WILL put on weight.
I’m not about to start eating more fat because you believe it is impossible to gain weight by doing so.
I do intermittent fasting but have never needed to do EF, each to their own.
lindalou
(linda)
#79
Brian- your comment is so helpful!! – I keep pushing the fats and I’ve been on this program for almost a year and think that by eating too much fat I haven’t allowed the program to use my OWN fat enough. Also- I like the fat too much and need to use more discipline in that area. No weight loss but lots of symptoms relief. I’m average weight but could lose 10 lbs Thanks for your strong smart message!
Alecmcq
(Alec)
#81
Linda
You can edit your previous post if you want to. 
just hit the little 
at the bottom of the post. 
where’s my 
gabe
(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” )
#84
Sorry to hear you feel this way, because from memory we’ve had some great conversations on this forum! Tone can be a challenge in text-based communication, but I can assure you that “bullying” was the furthest thing from my mind and was not the spirit in which this post was intended. I think and I hope that others agree, and that this clarification makes you feel a bit better about it.
Dread1840
(Chris)
#85
Unfortunate that the full text is paywalled, but apparently this was known in '57… Posted to the World Carnivore Tribe facebook group by Travis Statham.
The simplest to prepare and most easily obtainable high-protein, high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet, and the one that will produce the most rapid loss of weight without hunger, weakness, lethargy, or constipation, is made up of meat, fat, and water. The total quantity eaten need not be noted, but the ratio of three parts of lean to one part of fat must be maintained. Usually within two or three days, the patient is found to be taking about 170 Gm. of lean meat and 57 Gm. of fat three times a day. Black coffee, clear tea, and water are unrestricted, and the salt intake is not reduced. When the patient complains of monotony, certain fruits and vegetables are added for variety. The overweight patient must be dealt with as an individual. He usually needs help in recognizing the factors at work in his particular case as well as considerable education in the matter of foods.