Stop telling newbies to eat more fat!

(Terence Dean) #249

36oz is a fair bit about 900g?. I once attempted to eat a 1kg TBone steak at an Argentinian restaurant, I didn’t quite make it. Too full for that but first month on Keto I did manage to eat a kilo of pork belly in one sitting that was quite easy, now it would make me ill. So we can adjust our intake with portion control, well at least its what I’ve done, might not work for others.

(Janelle) #250

This thread is fascinating as a relative newbie.

Here are the conflicting messages I get every day -

Eat fat
Don’t be afraid of high fat
Don’t add fat
Eat protein to satiety
Don’t eat too much protein
I’m full
Don’t worry about calories
But wait - you’re not eating enough
What are your macros?
Don’t track
Don’t worry about macros, worry about carbs
Maybe cut out dairy?
Don’t use MCT
Don’t use fat bombs
Wait, but where is the fat coming from?

It’s maddening.

(Running from stupidity) #251

These aren’t conflicting.

One of the things about keto is that while it IS pretty simple, bodies do their own thing inside a set of wide parameters, and so it’s not possible to give the same explicit instructions to people.

Also, we have people on here who don’t seem to grasp the whole concept of n=1 and are prone to insist that simply because something worked for them it will - absolutely - work for everyone.

So yeah, it takes time and reading and watching and learning, like anything worth doing.

But in the meantime, if you keep the carbs under 20 and eat until you’re full and drink your electrolytes, you’re heading in the right direction, even if you’re not min-maxing it.

(Vladaar Malane) #252

It can be maddening, but the best thing to do I think is…

Do your own research, there are a lot of wannabe doctors, scientists in these types of forums.

juice is right though keep it simple, research on your own and find out what works for you, sometimes it isn’t what works for someone else and sometimes you have to vary what you do to get over a plateau by confusing your body with something different.

(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #253

Yup! Sounds about right.

Seriously, there are a number of takes on the data, but a few things are clear: First, if you want to keep your insulin down (whether to lose weight or to stop being diabetic or pre-diabetic), you have to eat less than a certain amount of carbohydrate.

Second, nobody knows exactly how much protein we should be eating, but we do know that too much or too little is not good.

Third, the body is perfectly capable of adjusting its metabolic rate to compensate for caloric restriction and for caloric abundance, which is another factor that confounds the calories-in-calories-out mindset.

Fourth, since the body responds badly to caloric restriction (as opposed to fasting or eating to satiety), calories have to come from somewhere, preferably from a macronutrient that doesn’t stimulate insulin production. (It’s probably pretty clear which of the two other macronutrients I’m thinking of, given that carbohydrate is out of the running, and ammonia toxicity from too much protein is not pleasant.)

I leave you to draw your own conclusions about the advice you’ve collected so far. :wink:

(Adam Kirby) #254

Yeah pretty much. :grin:

(Terence Dean) #255

Agreed. Do what works for you, reject what doesn’t.

Ketogenics is very flexible hence the reference to N=1 you see on these forums.

(Consensus is Politics) #256

Full disclosure, I intentionally trolled that way just a teensy bit. I have heard both sides of the insulin/ fat burning, but not yet seen the science on it. I was hoping when the bait was taken it would have helped me out. But it seems you are determined to make me learn something on my own. Good at ya! :cowboy_hat_face: Another item to add to my need to read list. Or should I say, need to delve into research list.

(Carl Keller) #257

If you watch YT videos about keto you will find a dozen different keto “experts” telling you a dozen best ways to do keto. Just remember, everyone is a little different and what works for one may not work as well for another. Take everything in and try different things what you are doing isn’t working.

Much of what you listed seems to be confusing because it’s advice given at different stages of ketosis. If we call everything prior to becoming fat adapted, stage 1 and everything after fat adaptation stage 2, it might be less confusing.

(Dan Dan) #258

Agree with @CarlKeller there are at least 2 stages (fasting, zero carb and the like would be additional stages).

Most of what is posted is out of context especially the OP :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

(John) #259

Because different things work or don’t work for different people.

Personally? I don’t track anything, don’t count anything. I use healthy fats when cooking, I don’t avoid fatty cuts of meat, I use full-fat versions of mayo, salad dressings, yogurt, and cheese, but in normal portion sizes. I don’t add extra just to be adding it.

I like meats and get plenty of protein. I eat normal portion sizes. I can and often do skip meals. Most of the time I am in complete conscious control of my hunger. It really does not take as much food to make me feel like I am done eating (which is not quite the same as “full” - more like “I am done eating”).

I don’t count carbs. I am rather strict on what foods I eat so it;s not hard. I am not likely to overeat lettuce.

Dairy doesn’t bother me but I eat it in moderation. I don’t use MCT and am not quite sure why I would want to. I don’t quite know what fat bombs are (I think little high-fat dessert things?)

But then someone comes along and the stuff that works for me doesn’t work for them. So I would have to give them different suggestions.

So that’s why you see different answers.

(Adam L) #260

Blockquote Some of the newbies in here who are eating 80% fat are being misinformed and they should be sent clips of Phinney talking about how overweight and obese people eating ad libitum LCHF diets will self-limit to a much lower percentage of fat, and their diet will LOOK like a high protein diet because – remember, the Dudes say this every podcast – they’re eating the fat on their body from the Krispy Kreme donut they ate a decade ago.

If they are eating 80% fat and will eventually self limit to a much lower percentage of fat do they need to see clips of Phinney saying that they will self limit? Wont they eventually self limit even if they don’t know that’s what’s supposed to happen?

I’d be more interested in getting their feedback as to whether they did in fact self limit fat after eating at 80% and how long it took for them to self limit as well as what progress they had made through that time period.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #261

Well this is exactly what I initially made this thread for. Lots of newbies are never limiting their fat intake because they think they need to eat lots of fat and reach their “macros.” They’re not really eating “ad libitum,” and my guess is a lot of them are eating past satiety to hit these arbitrary macro targets.

(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #262

You tell him, Gabe! It’s “fat to satiety,” not “fat past satiety”! :bacon:

(Bob M) #263

For me, fat never made me full. Protein, in the other hand, does. If I eat a high protein lunch (don’t eat breakfast), I literally CANNOT eat until dinner. Fat does not do the same thing.

(Running from stupidity) #264


(Empress of the Unexpected) #265

But remember, most fatty meat contains meat and protein. Meat is what fills me up.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #266

Let me add something to that. The past few days I have only eaten meat, bacon and pork rinds. My BG has gone up and ketones tanked. Until the past few days, bacon got a half avocado, lunch got blue cheese dressing, and dinner got butter on the steak. I think I may have short-changed myself and need to go back to more fat with the protein. The fatty meat may not be sufficient. Another experiment.

(Carl Keller) #267

I probably eat as much fat as I do protein when I eat so I can’t say if it’s the fat or the protein the fills me up more. I’ve done reading on this and lots of bodybuidling articles say “science says it’s protein” but never give reference to the studies… and I have read articles by nutritionist that say it’s debatable and not easy to test. I suppose I could self test and eat leaner meats and see if I am still hungry, but I really don’t like lean meats that much. The chicken breast is usually the part of the chicken I feed to my dog. :stuck_out_tongue:

The beauty of eating equal grams of fat and protein at the same time is it works out to 69% calories from fat and 31% from protein.

(Omar) #268

I literally drink butter and ghee equivalent to 10 spoons to meet my macros