Statins

#1

Hi everyone…I know this has been discussed many times, I’ve read posts mentioning that taking statins have only resulted in a 1% reduction in cardiovascular events, I’ve been searching but can’t find a reference to any study…does anyone know where this figure came from? I’d like to have this conversation with my GP as apparently he wants to discuss me taking statins, despite my overall cholesterol levels being 5.9, I’m UK so not sure how those numbers relate to what US members have quoted, but I know it’s not high!
Many thanks if anyone can help !

(Bob M) #2

The problem is that this is a complex set of circumstances. Consider the following:

Reduction in breast cancer mortality for women (40+) over a period of 10 years:
No mammography screening: 4 deaths per 1,000 women
With mammography screening: 3 deaths per 1,000 woman

Relative risk: from 4 deaths to 3 deaths, so 25%
Absolute risk: (4-3)/1,000 = 0.1 %, or if 1,000 women participate in screening for 10 years, one will be saved.
NNT (number needed to treat): (lower is better) 1,000 (1,000 women have to be treated for 10 years to save one life)
Increase in life expectancy: Women who participate in screening from the age of 50 to 69 increase their life expectancy by an average of 12 days.

NOTE: this is from pages 59-60 of:

What you are looking for is “actual risk” for statin treatment. That will be a challenge to find, mainly because there’s no benefit and only detriments for this number.

And – like all drugs – statins have many effects. Consider the following:

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/category/cholesterol-statins/

Dr. Kendrick argues that LDL lowering by statins doesn’t provide the (purported) benefits of statins.

If my calculations are correct, your 5.9 is about 228 in US units. That’s for total cholesterol or LDL. Not sure which one you’re using.

The best thing you can do is get a coronary arterial calcification scan done. It’s the cheapest test and gives a relatively good (though not perfect) idea of calcification.

Arguing against statin use is going against what your doctor has been taught, and the nuances of the argument are such that it’ll take longer than you have.

#3

Thanks for this, I did manage to find out some other studies buried a bit deeper on here too…

(Mike W.) #4

Do you mind sharing? I need to talk to my cardio about this? I’m sick of it

(Jane) #5

Keep in mind that nobody can force a pill down you unless you are in the hospital. They can prescribe statins, but doesn’t mean you have to fill the prescription or if you do - your choice to take or not.

I would keep researching for your own peace of mind - you won’t convince or change your doctor’s mind IMO.

We have nurse practioner’s here in the USA and they are much more up-to-date than medical doctors, in my experience.

We switched to a new one this year and when she asked my husband about statins he said he didn’t want to take them. She said side effects? He nodded and she moved on without further comment.

(Bob M) #6

Though my new cardiologist is convinced that LDL is causal, and he’s young. My CAC score went from zero to 30, and he wants me on a high dose of statins.

I think my CAC score went up due (most likely) to an infection, most likely covid but could be the flu or both. I say this because I have lung scans done too, and the latest lung scan showed damage due to an infection, and that damage wasn’t there a few years ago for my last scan. My theory: infection damaged the endothelium faster than I could repair it, and that caused the CAC score to increase.

(Harriet) #7

Statins are generally bad for women and low cholesterol is bad for women.

My source? Every woman I personally know except for one had virtually intolerable side effects on statins and had to discontinue them, that and the HUNT 2 study that proved that older women are healthier with higher cholesterol levels.

#8

Those numbers were from the original study that put statins on the map, problem is the numbers they state are true, but those are the relative, not absolute risk reduction.

Doc’s don’t understand that, and also don’t care. Don’t waste your time, it’s not your docs decision, it’s yours. You’re under no obligation to appease him.

Stains aren’t all bad, no shortage of (good) docs that are very much aware of how everything works use statins as part of their protocols for arterial plaque reduction and reversal, but that’s alongside a handful of other things which a mainstream doc isn’t going to do, or even know about. It’s blindly taking statins because of a number indefinitely that’s the problem.

The go-to for the docs that don’t try and blindly attempt statins in the US is 200mg/dL, which would be about 5.1mmol/L

AFAIK in the UK most people still aren’t getting NMR’s or equivalents so not even getting subfractions, which you need to see if a decision is being made. sdLDL is the one to worry about, which the older lipid panels don’t show.

At 5.9 you’re not crazy high, but not ideal either but you really don’t know without seeing the breakdown, which a standard panel won’t show you. If your test is just the old school total, HDL, LDL and Trigs, that’s not enough. Especially since the equation to guess at it doesn’t work right with low carb eaters.

Have you tried tracking your dietary intake and playing with the breakdown to see how that affects your numbers?

Then of course there’s ways to cheat it way down if that’s the way you want to go.

#9

I’m really sorry for not replying sooner, been so busy recently… I found some figures posted in a discussion on here ‘Science Done Poorly - A Delightful Romp’

#10

Thanks , I saw my GP & he didn’t even mention statins, after all the stress! I’ve read up a fair bit so might just tweak a few things & leave it at that, not too worried for now. I didn’t get a breakdown of the numbers but imagine it’s the old school test…

(jay) #11

Four of my best friends are cardiologists. One of them, told the group that keto would kill me. He added, “You might look better… but you’ll look great in your coffin.”

That was ten years ago, I had given up on mitochondrial destroying statins and embraced full Keto/Carnivore/fasting lifestyle.

Today I’m no longer obese, sluggish, and a couch slug; I’m physically active, lean, muscular, and vascular.

Jim was right about one thing — we’re all going to end up in a coffin someday, if we’re lucky. My hope is to look good, feel wonderful, and live fully right up until I meet my Maker. N=1

#12

A little update - have been having palpitations, ventricular ectopics apparently, but no more said about statins still. They want me to try a low dose beta blocker, which I’m not overly happy with as my BP is a bit on the low side, plus my metabolism is slow enough without slowing it even more, so will see how it goes… And have to reduce caffeine which is annoying as a nice cup of coffee is a real treat on keto :confused: And I have to reduce the nerve pain medication I’m on so hope that doesn’t make my TN flare up :disappointed:

(Edith) #13

I have to keep my magnesium intake around 500 - 600 mg a day, make sure I get my calcium, and supplement with a little extra salt each day to keep the palpitations to a minimum. I tried beta blockers years ago and hated them. At the time, I’d had a couple of scary bouts of palpitations that sent me to the emergency room, so I saw a cardiologist and she put me on the beta blockers. I couldn’t exercise because they prevented my heartrate from going up, they made me very achy, and I already had naturally low blood pressure, and they made my blood pressure too low, so I stopped taking them. Once I upped my Mg, my palpitations decreased. I still get them every so often, but nothing to be concerned about.

I did also go through a phase where I was getting little episodes of A-Fib. My heart would just start beating like crazy for a few seconds and then return to normal. That went away when I upped my calcium intake. I can’t eat dairy, so I think I became sorely depleted of calcium.

My only complaint for me and keto after all these years has been keeping my electrolytes balanced. How is your electrolyte intake? You may think you are doing well with supplementing, but maybe you need a little more?

#14

I do take supplements, magnesium & calcium together, sodium & potassium…I take the recommended dose but wonder if because of keto & the really hot weather here I need a bit more :confused:

(Bob M) #15

Usually, salt is the main supplement to take. Then probably magnesium.

Potassium is the hardest to meet, though, because most potassium pills are useless (in the US, they seem to be limited to 3% of daily value). It’s better to get no-salt or something similar.

Some people have had to increase their carb consumption to lessen the issue with electrolytes.

(Edith) #16

Yeah, I had to do that a bit, too. I’m still around 50 grams of carbs a day, give or take, but zero carb almost instantly causes an increase in the palpitations.