Statins for atherosclerosis /arguing with GP ;-)

#1

My partner was diagnosed with atherosclerosis after angiogram in 2014. He’s been eating LCHF since early 2015 and full keto since earlier this year, + he quit drinking and smoking. His BP & blood works are all vastly improved. He’s healthy weight now, all good.

Only problem, he was put on statins back in 2014, reluctantly he took them for 2 years but decided to wean himself off and has now stopped.

His GP is adamant they ‘stabilise the plaque which could otherwise break off and cause heart attack’. So he’s been prescribed a lower dose statin as a compromise.

Is there any way to find out the state of the atherosclerosis without another angiogram? is ultrasound an option?

Has anyone else come up against this? Any advice? Big thanks in advance :smiley:

#2

I think he can get a calcium score, which is considered pretty definitive in determining actual levels of arterial plaque.

There are folks on here who know much more about this than I do and I’m sure they’ll chime in, but in the meantime I would also look at KetoDave’s threads (and website) for more on LCHF and cholesterol levels.

(KCKO, KCFO) #3

So this this dr. order a cat scan of his heart? The gold standard for understanding what is in your arteries and heart? If he is concerned about your husband and not a fine some insurance co. will inflict on him for not prescribing statins he will order this test:
Computed Tomography Scan

A computed tomography (CT) scan creates computer-generated pictures of the heart, brain, or other areas of the body. The test can show hardening and narrowing of large arteries.

A cardiac CT scan also can show whether calcium has built up in the walls of the coronary (heart) arteries.

Above is from https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/atherosclerosis/diagnosis

He will need a baseline and tracked about once every three years. Statins do more harm than good from what I have seen my husband and others go through. My husband came down with crippling muscle pain from statins. He just stopped them and hasn’t looked back.

Good luck on getting the dr. to back off.

#4

thanks Madeleine - I’ll pass this on to him.

#5

Thank you collaroygal. I don’t know a CT is possible - we’re in the UK so it’s all low budget options on the NHS. But I’ll pass this on to him as well. Really appreciate your advice :slight_smile:

(bulkbiker) #6

Depending on if you want to you can get a CAC scan done in the UK privately. Mine was £255 at Rivers Hospital in Hertfordshire. You can self refer so don’t need a doctor to refer you. I can give you more info if interested.
Regards
Mark

#7

Hey thanks Mark, I’ll let him know. I’ll be in touch if we need more info.

#8

He might find this article interesting and informative. An IMT ultrasound would look at the soft plaque his doctor is concerned about. The CAC will be a better measure of whether he has blockage in his cardiac arteries.

#9

Thanks Carol, much appreciated. He had quite severe blockages show up on the angiogram in 2014. His GP keeps saying this can’t change, so the statins are just ‘damage limitation’, not open to the idea of it being curable. It will be interesting to hear the GP’s opinion on this…!

(jay) #10

@23rdgecko Statins have been shown to prevent or limit the rupture of plaques. The link below is the likely the origin of the line of thought he is pursuing. It is well worth a read. I haven’t fought my cardiologist on their continued use since I have plaques and even though I think their efficacy in preventing plaques or limiting them is questionable.

@collaroygal

I know that from personal experience, wow… epic muscle group cramping that could go on for hours!
The muscle cramping was weird, if i strectched my calfs while waking up…instant cramping…limping and trying to work it out…ugghh. That said, when I complained my cardiologist had me start taking Co Q-10 suppliments and …no more cramps its worked amazingly well for me.

#11

thanks for the link, I’ll pass this on as well. I guess he’s weighing up the pros and cons of possible plaque stabilisation against the side effects of the statins. The more info we can gather the better informed his decision is. Really appreciate your input.

(KCKO, KCFO) #12

I had my husband supplementing CoQ10 from the first statin pill. It did not help him at all. Stopping the statins, the pain stopped by the next day. His body really hated statins I guess.

(Roger Morris) #13

Cannot be done with ultrasound, this happens to be what I do for a living. Also, the CT scan looks for calcium which is not really the same as plaque. One is hard, the other soft. The “gold standard” in evaluating atherosclerosis is and Angiogram. That being said, the CT calcium scan is a good test, especially if he had one previously for comparison. I am still trying to figure out how someone with known heart disease, high cholesterol and CAD can do a Ketogenic diet and not be on at least a low dose statin.

#14

Hi Roger,

Thanks for your input too, I really appreciate all the advice here.

For clarity, he had an angiogram in December 2014, it showed quite severe blockages in more than one artery. He was prescribed & began taking statin immediately. It was a few months later he began the LCHF diet, and progressed to keto a couple of months ago after doing more research. It’s only since doing keto that he’s stopped taking the statins. His GP is aware of the diet change, and him stopping the statins.

His cholesterol is no longer high (I don’t know the figures off the top of my head, but he had another blood test last week so can find out the latest when he gets the results). His BP was 120/80 last week when he saw the Doc.

When you say ‘someone with high CAD’ - is this calcium? This wasn’t inc in his latest blood works, he’s requested it for the next test in 4 months.

Thanks again :slight_smile:

(Roger Morris) #15

Coronary Artery Disease. If his blood work looks good I wouldn’t think he would need the statin. The Keto diet should help to stabilize the plaque on it’s own. Everyones body is different in how they react. Is the doctor supportive of the Keto diet? Don’t recall from the original post, is he exercising? Light to moderate exercise is fantastic for cardiovascular health.

(jay) #16

@collaroygal Some people are just super sensitive statins and are unable to take them, it sounds like your husband is one of them. Do you mind if I ask what type of CoQ10 supplements ya’ll used?

(KCKO, KCFO) #17

100 mg Trunature I think is the brand. Got them at Costco. I did some research and 100-200 mg is recommended. He took two.

(jay) #18

@collaroygal

I took a look at the brand and type of CoQ-10 ya’ll were using and I’m pretty sure it was the in the form of ubiquinone which is the most common. The problem with that form is the difference in bioavailability is remarked on in the article I lifted from Wikipedia. It seems the body has trouble using the ubiquinone form when taken orally The short take is, someone like me suffering from severe muscle cramping due to statins, should take the ubiquinol form. If for some reason he should have to go back on statins it would definetly be worth a try.

Side Note … BEEF LIVER and PORK SHOULDER are : CoQ-10 Stars! They taste better and are cheaper than the pills…, as long as gout isn’t an issue. (in the food list below bioavailability )

Bioavailability

It is well-established that CoQ10 is not well absorbed into the body, as has been published in many peer-reviewed scientific journals.[4] Since the ubiquinol form has two additional hydrogens, it results in the conversion of two ketone groups into hydroxyl groups on the active portion of the molecule. This causes an increase in the polarity of the CoQ10 molecule and may be a significant factor behind the observed enhanced bioavailability of ubiquinol. Taken orally, ubiquinol exhibits greater bioavailability than ubiquinone.[5]
Content in foodsEdit

In foods, there are varying amounts of ubiquinol. An analysis of a range of foods found ubiquinol to be present in 66 out of 70 items and accounted for 46% of the total coenzyme Q10 intake (in the Japanese diet). The following chart is a sample of the results.[6]
Food Ubiquinol (μg/g) Ubiquinone (μg/g)
Beef (shoulder) 5.36 25
Beef (liver) 40.1 0.4
Pork (shoulder) 25.4 19.6
Pork (thigh) 2.63 11.2
Chicken (breast) 13.8 3.24
Mackerel 0.52 10.1
Tuna (canned) 14.6 0.29
Yellowtail 20.9 12.5
Broccoli 3.83 3.17
Parsley 5.91 1.57
Orange 0.88 0.14
Molecular aspectsEdit

Ubiquinol is a benzoquinol and is the reduced product of ubiquinone also called coenzyme Q10. Its tail consists of 10 isoprene units.

#19

Hi sorry for the slow reply. His doc has ‘old school’ nutrition advice: low fat, marg not butter, avoid red meat & eggs etc.

He work keeps him really active + he walks a lot, so exercise isn’t a problem. I’ll pass your advice on. Big thanks, much appreciated. We’re going to look for a keto-aware doc :wink:

(KCKO, KCFO) #20

Jay, I had never heard of ubbiquinol vs ubiquinone. Will have to look into that. We do have a lot of chicken breast, mackeral, & tuna. Broccoli is a reoccuring carb too. I have been using mostly pork loin, will look into some other cuts of pork now. None of the groceries I use have beef liver, nor pork for that matter. Will need to find a source for those.

CoQ10 is needed for healthy cell regeneration as I understand it. Always a good thing