Some carbs after weight training?

science

(Delbert Carr) #1

I am doing some resistance training thos morning. I want to take in whey protien after and that has 3 carbs per serving. I also wanted to add mct oil, chia seeds and a tsp of bee pollen all for various reasons. Also will mediately eat some beef liver and 3 eggs this will be 17 carbs a d 6 fiber.

My question is, does that many carbs after weight traing make the body less fat adapted? Also I stay under 20g total per day and plan too today also. I don’t often eat 17 in one setting, will this hurt ketosis?


(Delbert Carr) #2

Also, I will be testing and let everyone know what happens to glucose and ketones. My numbers before workout and breakfast was 101/2.5. I’m going to test again in 2.5 to 3 hours and let everyone know.


(Bob M) #3

I did a test where I was trying to see if I could get a zero on my Keto Mojo for ketones:

Day 1 - body weight training, 1 hour, 100 grams of carbs from rice noodles at first meal after exercise. Felt fine, no ill effects, got > 0 on my keto mojo.
Day 2, the day after Day 1 - no exercise. 100 grams of carbs from rice noodles at first meal. Felt terrible: hungry, tired, etc. Got > 0 on my keto mojo.

This is with the caveat that my morning ketones are pretty much always 0.2 mmol/l.This week, I took 1 tablespoon of coconut oil before bed to see if they would be higher in the morning. The result? 0.2 mmol/l. They do get higher at night.

I was eating about 50g carbs (rice noodles) after body weight training. Did this for a while, 2+ months. It does seem to make my muscles “puffier”, but other than that, I couldn’t find a benefit. I gain muscle mass and strength so slowly that any purported benefit to carbs after training isn’t really that great for me. For example, it’s taken me YEARS of training to build up to 10 pull ups. Years.

There was no increase in strength that I could see while eating carbs after a workout. So I went back to just keto.

I think that until I can get a continuous ketone monitor, taking ketones for me is a lost cause. I just don’t produce (or I’m great at using them) enough ketones. And I seem to be rock-solid at 0.2 mmol/l every morning,no matter what I do the night before. Sometimes, if I eat ice cream (for a birthday party, for instance), I’ll get to 0.1 mmol/l.

Also, I see this idea of being “fat adapted” as being suspect. I follow a guy on Threads who is doing a ton of tests, such as overeating tests. His current test is to add honey and something else, and his goal is to see whether he is no longer “fat adapted”.

But when I think about this, I have no idea what this means. How would you know if you are or are not “fat adapted”? I think the Phinney and Volek study they did where they used cyclists, I believe even the high carb cyclists were burning fat, and I think got into ketosis. So I really don’t have a good idea about what it means to be “fat adapted”.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #4

There is some semantic confusion, here. The body is always producing some ketones and some glucose, regardless of the metabolic milieu. Glucose metabolism is evolutionarily extremely ancient, and all cells can metabolize glucose when necessary.

The ability to metabolise fatty acids goes back only to the first eukaryotes, who formed a symbiotic relationship with certain other bacteria. These symbionts are now known as the mitochondria. They were originally considered to be just another organelle in cells, but the fact that they contain their own DNA, completely distinct from the DNA in the cell nucleus, together with certain fossil evidence, shows that they were once separate organisms.

(Another proof of their external origin is the fact that when mitochondria of different DNA are introduced into the same cell, they will fight one another to the death, possibly killing the cell in the process. This is why sperm cells carry no mitochondria and we thus inherit only our mother’s mitochondrial DNA.)

The mitochondria can handle a certain amount of glucose, but too much for too long (such as when we eat the standard Western diet) damages them. Fructose in quantity also damages them, as do an excess of alcohol (ethanol) and/or branched-chain amino acids.

“Fat-adapted,” or as Dr. Phinney and Prof. Volek prefer, “keto-adapted,” refers to a state in which the skeletal muscles are at the point where they are capable of routinely metabolising fatty acids again. This involve healing the mitochondria and fostering the growth of new mitochondria (mitogenesis) and the reactivation of certain cellular pathways involved in metabolising fatty acids. In this state, the skeletal muscles prefer to metabolise fatty acids over glucose and even ketones for their main needs. This means that “keto-adapted” athletes are using mostly fatty acids to fuel their endurance performance, reserving glucose to fuel explosive power.

None of this says, however, that carb-fueled athletes can’t use some amount of ketones, nor does it say that keto-adapted/fat-adapted athletes don’t use glucose. It should be viewed more as a continuum of shifting fuel sources to power the body’s current activity.

I don’t believe, however, that it has actually been shown that consuming carbohydrate after exercise actually builds muscle. It seems more likely, to me, at least, that protein and fat will do a better job of that, especially if the protein contains some BCAA’s (they won’t cause metabolic damage, if they are needed for building tissue). Carbohydrate may very well help to fuel performance if consumed before exercise, but that’s different.


(Delbert Carr) #5

My blood 2.5 hours after the meal is 107/1.3


(Delbert Carr) #6

@PaulL Holy crap! This was way more informative than I thought I would get! Lol thank you


#7

Unlikely but it’s individual how much carbs is fine on ketosis. I probably regularly eat over 17g sugar per meal on keto, it’s quite fine for me especially if it’s carnivore. For some reason animal sugar feels much better but it may be just me. No way I would ever be worried about meat or egg carbs! Maybe overdoing lactose isn’t right but I have reasons to hold myself back.
I only make sure I eat properly on workout days (energy, protein, nutrients), I don’t consider carbs important but they are inevitable in my case. It may be one can do a workout on a fasting day without any particular negative consequences but I am not comfortable with that, it makes sense to me to eat properly afterwards.
I was in ketosis and got fat adapted with 40g net carbs and unlimited total, usually in 2 meals but sometimes 1. But I feel much better if my carbs mostly come from animal sources so I try to eat like that. I couldn’t figure out if my diet has any effect on my workout (I eat high protein and high fat either way, it’s a given) so I just try to eat in the way my body and mind are happiest with.

I noticed changes so I vaguely use that as a reference… Softer hunger was the basic fat adaptation and no water weight changes was a deeper level or something…? Not super sure signs, just like for ketosis (I never feel if I am in ketosis, I did a bit in the beginning) but as long as I feel okay, I am fine with whatever I have. Not everyone have a good enough feedback like this but many of us must have, right?


(Edith) #8

Fascinating!!! Thank you!