So, I am active on another forum unrelated to this. Struck up a private conversation with another lady and we seemed to click. I love forums for that reason - lots of nice people, especially when you share a common interest. I mentioned that I was making cheeseburgers and wings for the “big game” on Sunday (Bills vs. Chiefs) - she is a Chiefs fan and I am Bills Mafia all the way. Also of note, she is a chemist/toxicologist/scientist. Anyway, she said she was making tuna steaks and has been pescatarian for three years and vegetarian for five. Of course, I had to write back that I am keto for 3.5 years, 1.5 of which I have been zc/carnivore. She was shocked and I think, a little taken aback. Probably thinks I am a dum a$$. 
I found it really amusing. I’m very happy and for me, have found “the way.” Everybody’s got to find their own jam.
So I made a new acquaintance
If you did pescatarian and vegetarian the “right” way, you could be keto. I doubt she is, but it’s possible.
Carnivore is, of course, a different story altogether.
Let us know whether you keep this relationship.
I have been going to a Poodle board, as I was thinking of getting a second dog that’s a poodle. I realize that some of those folk are vegetarian or vegan, and I may have irked some of them by saying my dog eats mainly meat and very little to no grains. Like me, actually.
Highly recommend a poodle. I have had two standards. I use breeders because it is impossible in my area to find a standard that needs to be rehomed without 10 other equally suitable families applying but depending on the part of the country you may find a nice one. Feel free to PM with any questions
I have the same issue @gingersmommy. I made a new friend over the summer and we were ordering in and she was saying she does not eat meat. I assumed it was a moral reason but it turns out she and her DH were concerned about health. Since she is around my age and thin and athletic and I do not appear that way (not thin, reasonably athletic but that is not obvious), I lose credibility which I realize is biased but honestly would you take health advice from a doctor who smoked?! We ordered sushi which worked for everyone
I also have gotten interested in the idea of healthspan and belong to a forum on that and there is often someone who comes out with the vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian dogma. There is one reason to eat plants according to Dr. David Sinclair, which is that plants produce chemicals when stressed that actually improve our mitochodria when we eat them since according to him a little stress is good for us. This is his theory and I am sure I am messing some parts of it up but that is the thought
While I want to be polite to the vegans, I wish there was a nice way to post without appearing to give health advice to random strangers. Finally, I have a friend who I have known for many years. She is a yo yo dieter and has a genetic predisposition to put on weight easily. We recently spent the day together and I found out she has not eaten meat for two years because she claims meat is hard for her to digest?! Since our dynamic is complicated and I can never tell her anything I let it go but honestly I have never seen her look worse. She is at the heavier end of her range and she did not look well
Was listening to a podcast with Amy Berger the other day. She said that most dieticians are young women who are thin and have never been heavy. They don’t understand why other people gain weight eating a “healthy” diet. Fast forward 30 years, then talk to us. (Though some people can maintain their weight…my mother, for instance. Thin her entire life, while the rest of her quite numerous family was obese. All of them.)
If someone says they can’t digest something, I totally respect that because I’m in the same boat.
I basically refuse to discuss my or anyone’s diet. Nothing good can come of it. Unless they come right out and say, “I’m considering the keto diet. Do you know anything about it?”
I don’t think it matters much in this situation if someone is a vegetarian. I was one for quite long and then ate meat a few times a year for decades… And knew very lovely vegans. If someone is an open-minded, respectful, loving person, they stay that on any woe. Of course we know the loud hateful delusional vegans who think they are enlightened and people like me are sinful but basically every numerous group of people have their bad ones.
I honestly don’t get why people judge other people’s diets so much. I noticed ages ago that many people think there is only One True Way for many things including the right diet. It’s obviously wrong. By the way, bigot ketoers who think high-carbers are all poor souls killing themselves aren’t cute either.
I am lucky, I rarely met anyone who had some problem with my diet and I only cared about my family too (not too much except the persons I lived with) and they were fine. When we were vegetarians, my SO’s Mom made vegetarian food for us when we visited (and she ate meat basically all the time), now she cooks meat. We doesn’t even expect her to do it but hospitality is a big thing here and Moms like to feed their children and she considers me her kid too. I read about plenty of vegans cooking meat for their family, that is something I never did even as a vegetarian, wow.
And that’s a close family… We should care even less about how our friend eats, it’s not our business… If we are good friends and that type, we may subtly share our opinion but if they don’t agree or don’t care, fine, it’s their diet, not ours. So I don’t understand why differences matter.
My SO is a high-carber eating big sweet desserts 2-3 times a day… It would bother me if he hadn’t a healthy diet as he should be with me for many decades more but he apparently does it right. It’s very, very different from my diet - and what. I am a different person. We never tried to change the other people much, it would have been a bad idea anyway, things don’t work that way. I do influence his diet but only where there is a wriggle room. Each to their own, I always say.
I easily could meet a thin, healthy vegan, I am chubby but with plants I would be even more chubbier, feeling worse and overeating way more… I know I do the right thing and that’s it.
I would have been super interested. When I was a nearly vegetarian ketoer, I tried to get info about zc as it sounded so extreme 
I was so sure I can’t ever even go anywhere close to such a hardcore weird thing but I had nothing against people doing it. I find it super interesting that meat is enough and vitamin C needs plummet there… Wondered about gut microbiome… I still don’t know much about it but I don’t actually need that…
But I was a low-carber almost-vegetarian with an open enough mind…
I am not but I have read enough about people who had that so I know that basically anything can be a problematic food for someone. So it can be a very valid reason to avoid something. NO food group is mandatory for a healthy human diet though I can imagine that some people would need something that they can’t eat so they end up NOT having a healthy diet option, poor souls. I don’t know if it exists but I easily can imagine it. Only very low-carb diets are truly healthy for me (though I can handle more carbs. it’s worse but I won’t get sick) but I need eggs and meat for them. Without eggs or without meat I would be doomed. And many people are allergic to eggs. And some people have problems with meat, maybe not all meats but I for one need lots of pork as I don’t have any other options…
Know anything about minis?
I’m looking for a mini, because my wife has put a limit of about 35 pounds on our dog. Our current puppy (9 months now) will be about that.
Most standard poodles are heavier, in the 50+ pound range. It’s possible to get close to 35 pounds, but tough to find those. (You can get a Moyen poodle, but the US doesn’t use this designation; so you end up with standards that are too heavy and minis that are too small.)
Since “happy wife = happy life”, I’d rather go smaller and get a mini poodle. That’ll make one 35 pound dog and one about 16 pounds or so.
And the reason I wanted a 35 pound dog is because I wanted to take the dog jogging with me…only to realize you’re not supposed to do this for about the first year. And now, it’s gotten so dark in the mornings that I can’t go jogging anyway. Went this morning in the dark, turned my ankle and fell down. So, there goes jogging for another 5 or so months (I’ll switch to biking inside or our treadmill). After my ankle heals, that is.
We have had two french bulldogs and I have been a member of a frenchie forum since 2015. Before that, we had a dobie mix and I was a member of a dobie forum for many years. I made one long distance friendship that has endured for nine years. I have shared her struggles with infertility, the subsequent birth of her twins, their starting kindergarten, etc. It’s been wonderful. Lots of nice people everywhere. It’s a global community.
I hear you. It’s that way around here with virtually any rescue, especially the smaller/medium dogs - there are ten people vying to adopt them and it can be very difficult, even if you are the perfect family. I’m glad you have your fur baby.
I get it; it’s so sad to me, honestly. I never go there, however - with anyone. If they want to know more, they’ll ask. My friends and loved ones know what I have been doing for 3.5 years. They have tons of health issues including obesity, and I have never felt better. They think my way of eating is reckless and extreme, but I just let it roll off of my back. Again, very sad.
I made the mistake of going to one at the recommendation of my doctor, whom I really liked. I was desperate and so despondent at the time about my ongoing issues with food, weight and bingeing. Nut. We were like oil and water from the get-go. Stupid me tried to convey what it’s like being powerless over food. She heartily agreed saying she has a problem with chocolate chips and limiting her consumption to less than a handful. She was wound too tight and painfully thin.
Yes not a fan of dieticians. One of my very close friends hired one at her DD’s request and the woman automatically assumed her kid had an eating disorder, it took her two months to figure out the kid did not. Even her meal suggestions were not impressive, which was the main reason she was willing to have her see the dietician since her diet needs to be more varied. While my friend is keto, she would have been fine with anything whole food and the suggestions were not great and not as whole as she would have liked. She also cited ridiculous studies saying breakfast should be consumed or kids will do poorly at school (her kid got in the 95 or 99th percentile on standardized tests without breakfast!)
Her DD is too busy right now to see her anyway and my friend is relieved.
Gary Taubes talks about how overweight people are not simply lean people who have eaten too much and exercised too little but most of the establishment still does not get that. Yes there are simply people who can eat anything but I did not get that
@ctviggen I do not know much about minis. Had a friend in the 80s who had one, smartest, nicest dog I ever met. Then I have an acquaintance who is herself not very grounded. She had a bunch of small dogs at her house and told me not to touch the mini because he seems to have multiple personalities, one minute friendly, the next he will bite.
Not sure how involved you are with dogs and poodles but there is a movement among breeders to diversity test their dogs due to what is known as the mid century bottleneck. It seems that the ones that are more diverse are also smaller. Our poodle is 21` inches at the shoulder and 42 lbs and she is very muscular for a poodle. We briefly fostered one that was 18 inches or so (she was around my knee and I am 5’5) and 29 lbs at age 2. Any dog over 15 inches is considered a standard. Also many of these are non docking breeders which I prefer as the full poodle tail is actually very nice
Not sure how old you are and if you have any retirement or travel plans but if you do I would get one that is small enough to fly if you have to get a small dog (I find I trip over them so I avoid them, had a relatively small terrier who passed recently and not sure if it was because he was old but I was constantly tripping over him
You may want to look at an Italian Water Dog also known as a legatto Roman. They are about the size of a small standard or large mini
you are right and that jam only works til ‘they’ gotta change theirs LOL
the other ‘controlled tight eating lifestyles’ usually ‘warp our way to heavy ketovore or maybe into zc like some of us need’ so I am sure she is shocked but like ya said…walk your own path. The path has no dead ends, just a place to rest for a while til ya walk again and find many more new paths. so true.
very cool ya hit up with a like minded nice person online tho!!
Again, I don’t care what people choose to do - or not. We are all on our own journey. My other thought on this was it must be wildly expensive to feed a family of four on pescatarian. That stuff is more expensive than meat! I’ve never checked out the frozen fish selections at the grocery club stores, however, I would imagine it’s still got to be expensive. My husband and I eat very economically with eggs and pork seeming to be the mainstays of our consumption.
The cheapest (normal) fish (I mean, there is some tiny stuff only good for cat food if you ask me, that’s not normal to me) is cheaper than my pork and anyway, one can be a pescatarian barely eating fish It doesn’t need to be as much as my meat on carnivore… I met people who ate 100g meat a day. That costs as much as a coffee not at home using hake fish…? Or less. Or way less. I don’t even know coffee prices nowadays.
But I looked at hake fish prices. It went up so I don’t want to afford it, maybe when I really miss fish… It’s about as much as pork and way cheaper than beef.
But I am very poor, most people in our countries (I mean the forum members’ countries) aren’t and can afford a tad costlier food… Hey, people go to restaurants, use takeway, eat way too much, buy overpriced treats, smoke, drink Starbuck coffee, drink booze… They can afford not buying the cheapest or close items if they want to.
I have known this person for over 30 years and we are the same age. I have never seen her look worse except when she was 9 months pregnant. I am extremely concerned but there is nothing I can do. I feel that if you are on a specialized diet and it is not for moral or religious reasons and you feel worse than you did before you went on the diet then it is time to consider other options
I eat close to 400 g of meat a day, and I’m not even carnivore. Or did you mean 100 g of protein? A lot of meats are about 1/4 protein, so 100 g of protein is about what I eat. I understand that the proportion of protein in fish is a bit lower than that, so someone would have to eat correspondingly more fish in order to get the right amount of protein.
No, if I write meat, I mean meat, if I write protein, I mean protein unless I mess it up. It’s strange to me when people write protein instead of protein source, it’s confusing.
100g meat isn’t surprising at all, actually, of course everything exists between 0 and a few kgs… But I was nearly a vegetarian (IDK, 1-2 kg meat per year? :)) at that time when I heard about it and if I ate some proper food, I meant business 100g meat is a tease! (Or a not really meaty dish flavored with meat, they exist and I don’t like them. Or 2 small sausages for breakfast.)
80-100g protein is what I like in my first meal 
It was 600g fatty pork today, yum. (For lunch, I mean. I ate a bit more later.)
But it’s me. Most women eat less protein than me (when I do my best to eat as little protein as possible, it’s a bit more than 120g for me for some reason) and they don’t even need more. IDK what is with me and high protein… Sigh. But it’s quite enjoyable most of the time I must say
And it’s just meat. There are zillion other protein sources. A pescatarian easily can get the vast majority of their protein from elsewhere (just like I ate high protein on vegetarian keto and I didn’t even have carbier protein sources there). It doesn’t mean they eat fish often or much, just that they eat some amount of fish. If I was a pescatarian, it would be 1-2 times per month, below 500g as fish isn’t substantial to me and I don’t like most of it and I know being a vegetarian is easy (before I tried carnivore. now I would be quite miserable I changed too much).
I hear you. That is many of my friends and family, some very serious. That used to be me. It is so sad, but it’s out of my hands. If they want to know, they’ll ask.