Shoulder tendonitis and keto or carnivore diet


(Bob M) #21

I still eat some (typically, well cooked) vegetables, but I’ve really cut down on the number of salads I eat. I only eat salads sometimes, most weeks none, sometimes one time per week, every once in a while twice a week. Salads wreak havoc with me, causing things like IBS. I still like them and eat them, but rarely.

The best thing to do is not eat them for a while, a few weeks, then reintroduce them. See what happens. If nothing, then that’s great.


#22

You know that that ‘blurred’ word, when you click on it, says show more?

LOL! Just making you aware friend. :joy: :rofl:


#23

Robin
Amazing! Have you tried reintroducing vegetables singly into your diet plan with negative results?

PaulL
I know I had better bowel movements when I ate salad and vegetables. But I knoiw everyone’s different


#24

Processed meats, corned beef, pastrami, salami cold cuts are these NOT permitted on the carnivore diet? What about hot dogs, sausages, these are processed meats as well containing harmful nitrates. Should they all be avoided?

For me joint pain in my shoulder started suddenly. One morning last August I awoke and had sharp excruciating pain lifting my right arm up or out to my side while lying in bed. The pain was not as sharp once I got on my feet but still it was limiting my movement. I honestly thought it was a stroke but after an xray that was ruled out. A shot of cortisone helped for a few weeks but the pain returned and I still have it today almost a year later. Luckily the xray revealed no arthritis but I can no longer go to the gym like I used too.


(Robin) #25

Oh yeah, I have dipped my toes back in the veggie water… hard no.


(Little Miss Scare-All) #26

Remind me never to go to one of your dinner parties. :broccoli::stew::foot:


(Bacon enough and time) #27

Yeah, individual variation is sometimes annoying. In my case, my bowels are much better off on less carbohydrate. If my circumstances allowed me to go fully carnivore, I suspect they’d be even better.

If they have grains added, I’d avoid them on carnivore. If it’s just spices, I wouldn’t worry. As for “harmful nitrates,” they mostly come from the plants added during the curing process.

Not only that, but most plants contain far more nitrates than meat does, yet for some reason only the nitrates in meat are the ones said to cause cancer, even though they are identical to the nitrates that don’t cause cancer when found in plants.


#28

Wow. I never heard about that and as I disliked almost all green leaves, I just never ate them. I felt a quite healthy vegetarian without them (I loved vegetables in huge amounts just not green leafy ones)… But then it turned out that my body loves lower-carb more. And lower. Even lower. It took some time but when I just stopped eating vegs (except in tiny amounts and/or occasionally), I suddenly got a bunch of benefits. Keto gave me new habits, new recipes and fat adaptation but didn’t give me those cool benefits (it was 40g net carbs for me though as I couldn’t do less with vegetables and all my other plant and animal carbs).

Many people says that more vegs, more carbs is better for them. But many of us do experienced good things without the smallish amount of vegs. The others are more relevant as 1. my keto was higher-carb 2. my keto was vegetarian. It was a quite huge difference to add meat when taking away plants… But I am quite sure both were very important steps.

So it’s possible that not eating the vegs with their carbs will be beneficial. And it’s possible to go from eating lots of vegs to carnivore (or close in my case, I don’t do it 100%. still useful for me). Some years ago I was quite sure that I can stop eating any food groups except vegetables. I was wrong. (It was surreal…) I think it’s eggs now… :wink:
I don’t know how but I lost interest in vegetables. I may eat almost anything on my off days but vegs? No thanks. I still have some I kind of like but it’s more like nostalgy at this point (and they go well with meat and eggs, some dishes even require them). I don’t touch them in the vast majority of my days.

So… Maybe try it without vegs (or less vegs) when you feel ready? You can’t really know what would happen, I surely had no idea carnivore could change so many things. It may or may not be right for you. I wouldn’t force it but trying new things out (even if it doesn’t sound that could be possible right for us but we don’t actually know…) may end up being a great idea as it was for some of us.


#29

Processed meats without grains are fine on this diet That is such good news! Goes against everything we were ever taught to believe.

Off topic I hope you know that all of history is LIES!!!

At this point I don’t even want to think about off days. I’m just hopeful my shoulder pain will diminish to the point I can go back to the gym

Yes I never even knew of nitrates in plants only the ones in processed meats.

And now I can eat all the fat on meat I want…who knew!

This may be wrong but I read years ago not to combine protein and starches. No meat and potatoes but separately they are fine. Low carb vegetables can be eaten with either protein or starches.


#30

I imagine mustard is ok to use ? Mayo is mostly eggs, is that ok? Soy sauce or any soy product must NOT be ok ? Duck sauce contains lots of sugar is probably not ok?


(Bob M) #31

If you’re on keto, mustard is OK, mayo too. If you want to be a “true” carnivore, no plant products are allowed.

I use the naturally fermented soy sauce, without wheat. (But I’m keto, not carnivore.) Coconut aminos are similar, but not as salty.

I’m not sure about duck sauce, as I’ve never had it.


#32

You mentioned these things are good on keto but what about carnivore?

imagine mustard is ok to use ? Mayo is mostly eggs, is that ok? Soy sauce or any soy product must NOT be ok ? Duck sauce contains lots of sugar is probably not ok?


#33

Condiments are kind of a gray area on carnivore…? Strict carnivore doesn’t allow them as they contain plants but “normal” carnivore, the not super strict ones often uses them. Which ones, that’s probably individual. I am the “worst” but I always called mine carnivore-ISH exactly to allow the tiny and for me, pretty harmless things to get the joy and variety I need.

Mayo… I would allow my yolk, lard, mustard one but not some store-bought thing with who knows what in it. I don’t like not homemade (by me, it’s important) mayo so I am not knowledgeable about them but surely there are better and worse and horrible ones.
And mayo is mostly oil. That’s why I dislike it. My homemade mayo (I don’t need it but made it once) is mostly yolk, I am not sure it can be called mayo… :wink:
So it’s pretty important what kind of oil it is. And what else are the ingredients. Many ketoers and carnivores don’t only focus on what the woe allows but they avoid many items for health reasons. I cut off very nearly all very processed items way before keto. Mustard not made from a few basic ingredients (but NO sugar) only could stay because mustard is so very important for me and my own mustard is so not right.

Soy sauce is OK to me but again, I am pretty indulgent if it’s about condiments. I only use a little when my fried pork has problems (I can’t always buy the right cut and there are differences anyway, maybe I got bored a bit) as it makes it better. Very, very rarely, I am sure it’s fine for me. But it’s not fully allowed in my world as it isn’t carnivore, it’s just for emergencies once in a blue moon. (I go off KETO more often than that anyway…)

I think if these things help, maybe they are crutches in the beginning and you don’t need to do full elimination, use them if you want…?

Sauce with lots of sugar is definitely not okay. I think avoiding sweet things is quite important for many but of course it depends on our goals…

My worst item that I do my best not to use on carnivore (it’s easy as I like to avoid cheese now and I only use that condiment with cheese) is a condiment with sugar. Not much sugar and I use the condiment in tiny amounts but still. I won’t buy that thing again. That’s even worse than my mustard with erythritol (it isn’t sweet, per se… and I wrote about my subpar mustard)…
I am aware of the ingredients and do my best to use the off items as little and infrequent as I comfortably can. It got better with time, my preferences changed.

So I guess we all should figure out for ourselves what we allow. I always was pretty indulgent because I didn’t need something super strict that would have been impossible to follow anyway.
If one can do and may need a full strict version, that’s great. But not my way.


(Bacon enough and time) #34

Protein in the context of a high-carbohydrate diet causes a significant insulin response. In the context of a low-carbohydrate diet, the insulin response is not significant. Or to put it more precisely, the insulin response is matched by a complementary glucagon response in addition to the insulin. In the former case, the insulin/glucagon ratio rises, cuts off ketogenesis in the liver, and puts the body in fat-storage mode. In the latter case, the insulin/glucagon ratio remains low, the liver keeps making ketones, and the body stays in fat-burning mode.

Insulin and glucagon are both secreted by cells in the Islets of Langerhans in the pancreas. They regulate each other and also whether the body is in fat-burning or fat-storing mode. Glucagon promotes ketogenesis and fatty-acid metabolism, whereas insulin inhibits ketogenesis and promotes glucose metabolism and fat storage. Ralph DeFronzo and his team showed that the threshold is just under 25 μU/mL of serum insulin. Below that, we are burning fatty acids and making ketones. Above that, we are metabolising glucose and storing fat.


(Bacon enough and time) #35

Mustard is a plant product, so most carnivores won’t touch it. But I’m sure that if you want to use it, people will cut you some slack, especially at the beginning. Mayonnaise is made with oil, but it is possible to make it with bacon grease, which would make it carnivore. Not to mention yummy. But the only condiment that most carnivores use is salt. Soy is a plant, so it’s off the carnivore diet. And sugar belongs in no one’s diet. It is addictive and deadly.


#36

Thanks I will be mindful of anything plant based and try to avoid it. Gotta tell you though, I feel a little guilty eating all the grease and fat I always wanted too, lol. Second day and Im still hungry every 3-4 hours eating like this.

Are there any low carb grains that are high in protein, Quinoa for example or is it plant based?


#37

I tried collagen peptides. msm powder, all sorts of anti arthritic formulas with tumeric, black seeds, etc, nothing seems to help which is why Im trying this diet to get shoulder relief.


(Bacon enough and time) #38

(Ethan) #39

I’ve had shoulder tendinosis for 1.5 years now, and I’ve been carnivore for 3 years. I have been keto more than twice that time before. It’s just the right shoulder now, but only stretching daily works. I stretch daily in the steam room and do strength training as I can. If I stop stretching, it gets worse quickly.


#40

All grains are very high-carb.
Oats have more protein than others.
Quinoa is a pseudocereal and indeed, it has more protein and less carbs. Still very high.

Pure gluten, that’s high-protein and low-carb. And very satiating if you ask my body. Not good for everyone, actually I heard most people has problems with it. I am not, apparently. I still keep it at a minimum but sometimes I need a break from meat and eggs and some dairy aren’t always enough. Carbs are worse to me. So it’s a plan B I very nearly never use.

But why would you need to eat such things? I eat eggs and meat for protein, dairy too, it works well together with skipping plants…