Shoulder tendonitis and keto or carnivore diet

#263

That’s a nice one! :slight_smile: I almost always make some when I have broth as I don’t like it with pure water. Such a lovely texture, I don’t get that from my other dishes… And it’s tasty as long as the broth is tasty. (The water I cook pork tongues in works but not that well so I usually convert that stuff into a more proper meat soup first).

(Edith) #264

IMHO, doctor’s don’t really know the causes of most chronic diseases because they are taught to treat the symptoms. And I’m not truly blaming doctors either. Not only are they overwhelmed with taking care of all the sick people out there, but they are overwhelmed with crazy amounts of paper work. How many of them really have time to delve into the causes of the all the chronic health problems they have to treat? (Any medical doctors on the forum, please feel free to correct me where I am wrong.)

But, onto calcific tendonitis.
Disclaimer: The following are just my musings.

When did calcific tendonititis become a thing? Is it modern? If so, what has changed? Well, one thing is that thanks to modern farming, transportation, and refrigeration our bodies never get a break from oxalates. Before we had access to produce all year round, we ate seasonally. Our bodies got a break from plant toxins, including oxalates during the winter.

“Interestingly, from the 1850s through the early 1900s, oxalate poisoning was
well-recognized. Back then, it was referred to as oxalic acid diathesis. It was known to be a
seasonal problem that got worse in the spring and summer, when fresh greens were available, when people’s oxalate consumption would go up.”
https://www.urologyofva.net/articles/category/healthy-living/3740469/11/13/2019/the-damaging-effects-of-oxalates-on-the-human-body

Before humans started mucking around with fattening cattle with grains, they (the cows that is) ate an exclusively grass (natural) diet. Dairy cattle that fed on grass, particularly in the spring
and fall had milk that was very rich in vitamin K2. Weston A. Price referred to vitamin K2 as Activator X. Vitamin K2 was unknown at the time.

According the an article by Sally Morrel of the Weston A. Price Foundation,

“Dr. Price discovered an additional fat soluble vitamin that he called “Activator X” and which was also referred to by others as the Price Factor or X Factor, and is now believed to be vitamin K2. It is a powerful catalyst which, like vitamins A and D, helps the body absorb and utilize minerals. It was present in the diets of all the healthy population groups he studied but unfortunately has almost completely disappeared from the modern western diet. Sources include organ meats from cows eating green grass, fish eggs and shellfish. Butter can be an especially rich source of Activator X/vitamin K2 when it comes from cows eating rapidly growing grass in the Spring and Fall seasons. It disappears in cows fed cottonseed meal or high protein soy-based feeds. Fortunately, Activator X/vitamin K2 is not destroyed by pasteurization.”

How much of the calcification that occurs in our bodies these days is resulting from a lack of vitamin k2 and being told we should be stuffing ourselves with healthy greens, nuts, etc all year round?

#265

The pain is gone but do you still have clicking or crunching in the shoulder particularly when you exercise?

#266

That is an interesting hypothesis that calcific tendonitis did not appear until recently. However it may just be it wasn’t diagnosed until recently because we didn’t have the technology years ago to make the diagnosis.

Is it so that oxalates are destroyed by boiling say spinach and are not present in canned spinach?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #267

I’m not saying it’s the case for you, but when I had a problem with a clicking joint, the doctor informed me that the sound was not actually from the bones of the joint, but from one muscle sliding over another. Interesting!

But I’ve not experienced that sort of thing since going keto. I suspect that, if the doctor was right, the problem was the result of systemic inflammation.

#268

The inflammation can make it painful but if there’s an actual tear, partial or full that never gets healed. And whether or not the clicking continues as long as the pain is gone who cares. We can’t fix every injury in our bodies. Although this diet goes a long way to repair all injuries. The body has amazing healing properties if given the right tools. And I don’t include surgery as one of those tools.

(Robin) #269

Short answer is yes, the calcification which caused clicking and grinding and it is gone. I haven’t had another X-ray to prove that it’s no longer there. At some point I probably should.

But when I row, my knees and my shoulders would both grind and crunch and click. I also have a tear in my shoulder. No more grinding.

Here’s an interesting aside about that shoulder though, if you were to look at that part of my arm/shoulder, you would think I have a really big muscle from working out (Is that the pec? I dunno.) but it’s not. And it looks like I am flexing that muscle. Again, I am not. My other shoulder or pec area is normal sized. But my body seems to have built a protective shield around that shoulder.
I’m not saying THAT is keto related. I have no idea.

#270

Excellent! I’d bet that protective layer around the old injury is definitely due to your diet.
You healed without surgery which is the best way to do so. If I’m so blessed as to heal this way I would credit the diet for doing so

If everyone were eating this way there’d be much less surgeries because they gave their bodies a chance to self heal without intervention. I can’t emphasize enough the number of people I speak to who’ve had failed surgeries for back neck shoulder and knees.

#271

Lunch for me today was a green salad with a couple of anchovies, olives, olive oil and apple cider vinegar. Then a rather large chicken thigh and leg, skin included with some chicken fat as dipping sauce.

I heard if you can chew the ends of soft bones it’s the best source of calcium.

I like fried chicken. Can you recommend any fast food places? Popeyes, KFC and the one I like the best Roy Rogers.

(B Creighton) #272

Ha Ha. yeah… No. I can’t recommend any fast food. I avoid all of it… because it is full of sugar, preservatives, carbs, and refined PUFAs.
I remember an aunt years ago who took us to KFC. I remember thinking she was not going to live to a healthy, old age. Well, she died on the operating table for an open heart surgery. Do u want that to be u?

Do you remember the restaurant called Red Tomatoes? I could “recommend” it, but the pandemic did away with it. Do u remember Kenny Rogers restaurants? I really liked them. Their chicken was delicious… and not fried. And their veggies were good. Sadly, I think Boston Market proved too much competition for them, and then mostly disappeared as well. It seems like restaurants that could potentially be keto friendly don’t last.

Sounds like you had a good lunch. Very keto… congratulations.

#273

Do you think if I removed the skin off the chicken at any one of those fried chicken franchises it would be keto friendly? That’s assuming none of the sugar, preservatives, carbs, and refined PUFAs did NOT penetrate.

What to avoid when eating out? Thanks

(B Creighton) #274

Some does. I try not to eat farmed shrimp anymore. I remember finding some small battered wild shrimp - I think Sea Pack brand. They of course already had soybean oil. So I bought them and dry fried them, and then peeled off all the batter to eat them… that’s some work, but did get rid of most of the gunk - over half of what they sold me to eat. I am just not going to do that at restaurants. The vegetable oils foods are fried in at restaurants typically get reused and heated and reheated for prolonged periods. It has been shown to be full of unhealthy compounds - not just the oxidized PUFAs. It is just bad news, and I just don’t eat any fried foods at any restaurants - it has been many years - and the exception was coconut shrimp.

What to avoid when eating out? Thanks

See the above. Some of it might be technically keto, but is to be avoided anyway. I would try to find a local keto friendly restaurant… there supposedly are some now, but I’m not aware of any national chains geared to keto. And protein rich foods are typically expensive. So prepare to pay more. Some of the big chains will allow you to alter foods enough to be keto friendly, and a few do now have a handful of keto offerings - even at KFC, which you mentioned, you can have a piece or two of Kentucky grilled bird, the green beans, and a side Caesar or house salad (if you choose your dressing wisely clocks in at fewer than 10 carbs). If you are going to go out, just do an internet search for keto offerings at national restaurants. Restaurants like Outback Steakhouse, Red Robin, Olive Garden, etc have a handful of low carb offerings. You can try asking your waiter/waitress for low carb recommendations as well.

#275

Thanks. I have a favorite diner here in Brick NJ very popular place, always packed. Though the elderly patrons for the most part look very sick and unhealthy, not a good sign However I avoid their fried offerings. I do think a burger and salad there should be keto friendly? They make delicious lamb, and pork chops. They have baked salmon & I imagine their Greek salad should be fine.Breakfast bacon eggs and sausage should also be ok. If I choose wisely eliminating most fried dishes do you think a Chinese buffet might be keto friendly? I love their spare ribs however the sauces they use may not be keto wise?

(Edith) #276

American Chinese food I think would be tricky. I think the sauces have a fair bit of sugar.

#277

Yes they do. Must choose wisely.

#278

If I went to eat out in Hungary now, I would go to a steakhouse, it should be quite easy to eat keto there, it’s not a trend here to mess up a proper meat dish with sugar… But I suppose something is possible in other countries as well, can’t be all steaks sugary… Especially if keto is a big thing there so even keto restaurants are a thing.

But I have read a lot from experienced ketoers who made keto happen in many kinds of restaurants. Some are worse than others, Maxicans work, Italians not so much…
I still think steakhouses sound best, I would have a super bad opinion of them if they couldn’t give keto food, they should be able to pull it off carnivore too… But I wasn’t in restaurants since ages and never in a steakhouse. Still have this opinion.

#279

Yes steaks, all meats chicken fish, seafood if grilled baked or broiled in restaurants are good keto/carnivore solutions.

Why do you say Mexican restaurants are keto friendly?

These restaurant chains they claim are keto friendly:

#280

I don’t say they are keto friendly, per se but people made it possible to eat keto there. There were options. That’s not the easy level either I suppose, remembering the nice Mexican restaurant I visited a few times but still better than an Italian one (I never was in one but they are too big on pasta).

#281

Is cod liver oil recommended?

#282

Miraculous! Two weeks into a low carb high protein high fat diet and my shoulder is greatly improved. I haven’t felt this good in months with no anti inflammatory drugs or shoulder rubs.
I’m just saddened I can’t convince my daughter to try this. She’s been suffering from rosacea for several years and believes in moderation but that hasn’t worked for her. She’s convinced high saturated fat is dangerous. She’s tried intermittent fasting, cut out all dairy, etc but still gets flare ups. She believes she has a mold condition in her gut. I can’t convince her to try this.