Should I eat lots of fats if not getting into ketosis?

(John Squires) #1

I recently started intermittent fasting and have considered the Keto diet. I’ve started to greatly reduce carbs and increase fats. But my carb intake is still too high to enter ketosis. I use test strips and they show no ketosis. So my question is, should I continue with the high fats if my body is not getting into ketosis. I have dropped 11 pounds in 4 weeks essentially by no longer eating 1000 calories of mostly carbs every night in the last couple hours before going to bed. I also fasted for four days once. It was much easier than I thought it would be.

(Ethan) #2

What kind of macros are you eating? Are you eating real food?

(John Squires) #3

Bacon, eggs, chicken, beef, raw vegetables, lots of nuts. Sometimes have a tortilla to make a sandwich, and sometimes have a half of a toasted bagel with peanut butter. My question isn’t so much what I need to do to achieve ketosis, as I think it is going to be difficult for my wife and I to reduce carbs much further. My question is that if we do not cut out enough carbs to get into ketosis, should we be purposely adding fats to our diet ? For example, we’ve starting (trying to acquire a taste for) bulletproof coffee where we add butter and MCT oil. If we’re not in ketosis, isn’t that simply extra calories, or is there still a benefit?

(Ethan) #4

Your body can burn fast without ketosis, too, I believe. I think if you feel good and eat real foods, it’s ok.

(Jay AM) #5

Ketosis isn’t only achieved at under 20g of carbs. However, for people who are very obese or have high insulin resistance, low carbs are definitely better. As far as also eating high fats, if your blood glucose is often high and stays that way for long periods, you’re likely eating too many carbs already and you won’t want to add high fat to the mix. Remember that SAD is high carb and high fat, we don’t want to eat like that.

#6

You seem hesitate to go full Keto because of food you might miss.

If you want the full health benefits, ditch the carbs (except for 20 net g of veggies). Just do it! Yes you should increase your intake of healthy fats but they should replace carbs.

You may be amazed at the difference. Chances are you will no longer care for the carbs that you don’t seem to want to give up today. And you may be healthier because of it.

Also, there are Keto versions of most high carb foods, such as, tortillas and bagels.

#7

If your going to fully switch to keto, yes. But no amount of fat will help you until your carbs are down where they need to be.

(Jennifer Kleiman) #8

Hold up - how much are we talking here? My hubs was polishing off 1/2 a 16oz jar of peanuts thinking “yeah whole food and nuts are keto friendly, mm”. Well, a serving is 1oz for 4g net carbs (and 14 fat, 6g protein) so with him eating 8oz that’s a quick 32 net carbs. He cut out the nuts and all is well. Nuts are VERY easy to overeat and have a lot more carbs than you might think, some much more than others.

(John Squires) #9

BACKGROUND: I was diagnosed as Type II diabetic about 12 years ago because of two successive fasting glucose levels above 100. But my A1C has ranged between 5.3 and 5.9 for the past 12 years, except for one 6.2 recently when I ate tons of sugar for 3 months to see if my A1C would be affected. My doctor changed my diagnosis from Type II to insulin resistant. For the past 12 years, I have had my fasting blood glucose checked 48 times and it has always been above 100. On my last test, I fasted for 36 hours before the test and it still came out at 108. But again, my A1C has always been normal except for the one sugar binge I went on. My doctor is puzzled at the conflicting numbers (high fasting sugar levels with normal A1C). I have had absolutely no other signs of diabetes - no leg problems, eyes are completely normal for my age (I have a diabetic eye exam performed annually).

I weighed 251 at my last doctor visit 6 weeks ago, so started intermittent fasting the next day and have lost 12 pounds in about a month. I have no problems with hunger, stomach rumblings, headaches, low energy, etc. since starting intermittent fasting. I don’t have any carb cravings. I want to get down to 220 by mid-summer, then down to 200 by Christmas. I will be 66 years old in another month. Once I get to 200, I will reassess and probably shoot for 180. When I was 30, I went on a low carb diet and jogged about 25 miles per week and my weight dropped from 208 to 150. I stayed at that weight for about 5 years, then got married and gained about 3 pounds per year since 1983.

Any ideas about the high fasting sugar level and normal A1C?

(John Squires) #10

Jennifer - I can eat a cup of nuts a day - not uncommon for me. I’ll cut back.

Jay AM - Yes, I am obese and have high insulin resistance.

(Jennifer Kleiman) #11

5.3 to 5.9 a1c corresponds to an average glucose of 105 to 123, but that’s just for the average dude. There can be personal factors which influence your a1c – if your red blood cells live longer or shorter than average, if you’re anemic, if you donate blood frequently (or if you menstruate), your a1c won’t mean the same thing as someone else’s a1c. The thing you want to do is get your fasting insulin tested. If you are insulin resistant(IR) it’ll be high. High IR will lead to worsening diabetes eventually. But you can reverse IR by losing sufficient bodyfat.

(Chris W) #12

I think to answer your question, you really need to asses your BG level at this point.
I am sure others will tell you that knowing your BG level cycles will help you understand your intake needs, and possibly if you are in ketosis.
Being IR you are going to be less in need of energy, esp if you are obese. So you need to think of carbs vs fat as your energy intake and IMHO it should be one or the other not both at high levels.

I would really try hard to get the carbs down, I can tell you won’t miss them.
Just because you are not seeing the urine strips turn colors does not mean you are not in ketosis. IR folk don’t normally produce a lot, and that may be you. If you don’t produce a lot you will not expel excess to any great extent and that is what you are seeing (or not) on the urine strips.

(John Squires) #13

Jennifer and Chris - I fasted Thursday and my test strip finally detected ketones this morning. Color is between the 1.5 and 4.0, closer to the high end. I’ll keep fasting today to see if it goes higher.

(Candy Lind) #14

If you continue to eat high carb (and one bagel is close to 3x the carbs I normally eat in a day), 1. eating a lot of fat with it is the worst thing you can do; 2. you’ll never become fat adapted. You may burn off enough glucagon to get into ketosis occasionally, but you will never experience the benefits of fat adaption.

THAT is where you need to get to fix:

You can fix this if you go keto. Otherwise, it’s all downhill from here.

Trust me, there’s a keto bagel to fill that void, and you may end up not even wanting it. Give keto a try for a month. I wager you’ll never look back.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #15

Dr. Phinney talks about a low-carb diet being under about 100-125 grams of carbohydrate a day, and speaks of most people being able to get into ketosis eating that much carbohydrate. So most of us probably have a fair amount of leeway where carbs are concerned. The reason that we recommend a limit of 20 g/day on these forums is to ensure that anyone, even the most insulin-resistant, can get into ketosis. If you keep your carbohydrate consumption low enough, your insulin level will come down low enough for your muscles to start burning fat and your fat cells to start releasing fat to them.

The reason we encourage eating fat in place of carbohydrate is that fat in the diet has a minimal effect on your insulin production, whereas protein stimulates it somewhat, and carbohydrate stimulates it a lot. We also encourage eating fat, because it eliminates the need to count calories. Eat fat until you are no longer hungry, and you will find it much easier to keep on this way of eating. You will also, by not stimulating insulin production, allow your body to start metabolizing any excess fat it may have. By eating fat to satiety, you are permitting your body to set your food intake at a level where it can burn both the fat you eat and the fat in your fat cells. As your excess body fat gets used up, you will automatically increase your caloric intake until all your daily energy needs are met from the calories you eat.