Severe gut issues

(Bob M) #43

I’ve heard a lot of people who really think choline is great. Every time I hear that, I want to eat more eggs, as they are high in choline. Will have to do that one day.

(Ethan) #44

I have 2 different Quercetins here:

Doublewood Quercetin 1200 mg (I take 1)
Swanson Quercetin and Bromelain 500 mg (I take 2)

They are both good. I don’t know which one is better. Also, I don’t like swallowing things so I usually chew them regardless of the taste and the Quercetins always taste pretty good.

(Edith) #45

I believe this fits with histamine intolerance. I mentioned back in April the histamine trouble I had doing carnivore over time, particularly with beef. I could handle chicken, lamb, and veal. None of those meats are aged/hung. Interestingly, grass fed beef was the worst. My theory is that it is hung longer than conventional beef because it is tougher, but I don’t have any proof of that.

It is good to hear you figured out something and how much better your wife is feeling.

(Bob M) #46

I saw a substack article about the fats in beef versus lamb also. The fats in lamb tend to be more odd-chain saturated fats, while the fats in beef tend to be more even-chain fats. This could - theoretically - mean lower inflammation, as the odd-chain saturated fats tend to lower inflammation better than the even-chain ones do.

This is a ridiculously hard calculation, though, because it’s really tough to tell what you’re actually eating and how that affects you.

@VirginiaEdie How did you know that you were having issues with histamine intolerance?

(Edith) #47

I discovered I had some histamine trouble when I first started keto. I was eating a lot of histamine containing foods. My eyes would water, I would get air hunger, I would get itchy, and I would get heart palpitations. Taking an antihistamine would help all those symptoms. Once I cut back on histamine containing foods, those symptoms pretty much went away.

About five months into carnivore, is when my histamine intolerance really started getting worse. When I started reacting to beef, I would get all those same symptoms, plus I also got the cramping and explosive diarrhea. According to the research I did on histamine intolerance, digestive troubles can also be symptoms.

As a result of the research, I added vitamin C containing foods back to my diet and low and behold, within a week or two, I was able to tolerate beef again. I haven’t had any problems since, except with grass fed beef. Grass fed beef makes me itchy.

I still get histamine trouble on occasion, especially if meat has been in the fridge a little too long. However it is nothing like when I was at the tail end of my carnivore trial. I don’t believe it was food poisoning or a virus because the problem only occurred with beef (but not veal, veal is not aged.) I did wonder if the problem had been caused by being bitten by a tick, but again, once I added vitamin C back in, the problem went away. That would not have been the case if it was alpha-gal.

(Bob M) #48

Interesting, it seems like you did well to figure out what it was.

I’ve been testing taking Vitamin C, mainly because I have very high Lp(a), and there’s some evidence that Vitamin C helps drop that level. (Though I should note no evidence that dropping that level is beneficial.)

(John Bradshaw) #49

@VirginiaEdie Thx for relating your experience with beef vs other meats. This was most helpful. It fits in with my wife’s experience so far with lamb vs beef.

And just an addendum, I can eat the same beef and experience no issues. My wife however, will have the same symptoms you mentioned from the beef. On lamb she is doing so much better. Thankyou.

(Delbert Carr) #50

I wonder if TMG/betaine would help?

(Bean) #51

That really does sound like histamine intolerance. She may do well with veal, as well. I can eat beef, but mine is freezer beef that was only hung the minimum. What helps me manage is 90% of what I eat is local frozen beef, lamb, or chicken and nothing hangs out at refrigerated temperatures for more than 24 hours.

Some DAO/ kidney and/or vitamin C may be helpful. I’ve noticed my system has settled down quite a bit over time and can get away with occasional pork, Jones sausage, a couple olives, or bite of fresh cheese.

(Danna Lafever) #52

New here, so glad to hear someone else has sitting in car pain. People treat me like I’m crazy if I mention sitting issues. Doctor is worthless.
I have a problem leaning back (to relax) reading in bed and riding in the car. If I sit at the kitchen table leaning forward the pain sometimes goes away.
I have had severe IBD presenting with constipation for 12 years since a knee surgery went sideways and they had me on cipro (Antibiotic) . I have constant rumbling, gas, and cramping. Full carnivore is helping but can only digest lamb and some fish.
Regarding the sitting position mine seems to be a bowel motility issue.
Utube has bowel massage videos that has helped me. Natalie Kunsman has talks about ilcocecal valve disfunction which may be some of the problem. It is sad that we have Doctors that only want to do surgery (remove colon) and we have to go to u tube for help.
I have been a vegetarian health nut all my life and was fit and healthy until the knee surgery. Now I have days I cannot leave the house or bathroom. Try the bowel massage, also some yoga poses relieve the pain sometimes. Hope this helps. Don’t give up hope!

(John Bradshaw) #53

Thx Danna.

Do you find that you need to watch the amounts of fat when you eat lamb? I know when my wife eats all the fat from her daily 20 or so lamb loin chops, that she gets a LOT of deep burping and gas. It makes her so on edge when she gets this. She is experimenting with only eating half the fat from the chops.

My wife had a double knee replacement 3years ago. She has had no issues, that we know of, from the surgery. Sounds like you had an infection post surgery which has affected your gut due to the strong antibiotics. Sorry to hear that.

Also, we shall try some regular walking to see if that helps, when she is able.

(KM) #54

Not to muddy the water, but have you checked for a herniated disk? I’m not doubting your IBS, but you could have both issues, potentially unrelated.

(John Bradshaw) #55

Hi Edith,
I noted that you added Vit C containing foods back in…Did you ever try just a tablet of Vit C, or did they cause a reaction? Was it oranges you ate for the Vit C? How much did you start with? Thx

(Edith) #56

At the time, I started off adding in a powder supplement called camu camu. It is very high in vitamin C and low in carbs so I thought it would keep me as close to carnivore as possible. I wasn’t a fan, so I added in arugula (low in oxalate) and some berries.

(Bob M) #57

Edith, would you happen to know what your Lp(a) level is?

(Edith) #58

No, and I have been terrible at going to doctors for various checkups. I am hoping to get started on that this fall. I guess I could do an independent test via Dave Feldman’s site.

(Bob M) #59

Ok, I personally don’t think it’s a great marker, as my levels are super high (and it’s another supposed CAUSE of atherosclerosis), but I got a zero on a coronary arterial calcification scan. But if you want to find out how “deadly” Lp(a) is, just Google it.

But there’s a theory that we (humans) got Lp(a) because we could no longer produce vitamin C ourselves. I’m wondering if Lp(a) could act like a “surrogate” vitamin C, so if your levels are low, maybe that’s why vitamin C helps? Whereas since my Lp(a) levels are sky-high, I don’t have the histamine effects you have? And the levels of Lp(a) are primarily genetic.

Anyway, if you do ever get an Lp(a) test, I’d be interested to see what your levels are. Not sure you want to get this by a doctor, though, since – like LDL – they think Lp(a) is EVIL incarnate, and I could be completely wrong and you have high Lp(a). But by that time, they’ll have a drug to lower Lp(a) that they want you on. :grinning: (My cardiologists don’t yet know about Lp(a), but it’s only a matter of time, ie, when they come out with a drug to “fix” it.)

(Danna Lafever) #60

John,

I eat 2 meals a day. Keto coffee in A.M. around 6, walk the dog for 1 hour and at 9 I have one lamb chop and a soft boiled egg or piece of salmon. I eat all the fat from the lamb chop and sometimes add butter or coconut oil. I eat the same meal again when I’m hungry usually at 3 or 4 p.m.
I cannot have water to close to a meal and feel better if I don’t drink water for an hour after a meal. It also helps if I sip vinegar in water, between bites when eating. It taste terrible but I’ve learned to deal with it as it helps a lot with digestion. I have very little gas pain when I make myself drink the vinegar water. ! tablespoon vinegar per 1/4 c. water.
Eating slowly and chewing my food until its almost liquid works for me.
I walk the dog for 1/2 hour after dinner as it seems to help motility.
20 lamb chops a day sounds like a lot, has she tried another protein with a chop or 2? It also works best for me if I don’t eat after 4 pm.
We are all different and what works for one person doesn’t always work for another.
Has she tried digestive aids? I haven’t yet, there are so many different ones and they are expensive.
Give her my best!