Set Point/Weight Loss

(Marianne) #11

How did you know that’s where it was?!!! :joy::rofl::innocent:

#12

yes your body will ‘set point’ based on your thermodynamics and more but key being…on plan gets one ‘past that’ but not on your personal timeline…so the ‘I want to hit goal soon’ means to ‘diet’ and not just do carnivore as intended.

If you are ‘that close’ truly why not just eat to still get what you achieved thru just a slower time frame and after all…you are staying carnivore right?

cause if you dump back into ‘some keto’ or keep it very low you will gain back, but then again it could suit you for future lifestyle eating…so you got some SOs? in there LOL

I will not and ever base my future life on a number on the scale or a tiny pooch of my gut or my darn fatter arms with some hanging meat on them that wiggle or my few wrinkles in the thighs thru losing lbs or anything else. I can’t achieve perfect, only photoshop will do that for a human being LOL But I feel at some point I had to get past ‘the dieting’ and just friggin’ live a healthy eating lifestyle ya know…not saying this is you at this time at all, but that is how I progressed ‘past the diet’ and into a lifestyle. Took time for me but that is me :wink:

(Marianne) #13

Yup; carnivore. I find it just suits me. Everything is delicious and I don’t feel like I am missing anything… Please don’t get me wrong, I am very satisfied with my body, how I’m eating and where I am at - and with however long it takes. I don’t weigh myself or obsess about food or my weight. I feel great nakey or in my clothes.

(Robin) #14

I’m suggesting WE don’t go about changing the set point. Time and our own bodies determine that, with no changes in our diet or exercise.

(Greg Smith) #15

Just curious if you track your calories and have you adjusted your daily target for weight loss as you lost weight? When I was 250 I set my target calories per day around 1850 following a typical Keto macro ratio.

Started Sept . 2020 and I got to about 205 in Jan. I definitely stalled for months at 205 through April. I actually slacked a bit over the summer and gained back about 12-15 lbs not counting my calories as much and allowing my self weekends of alcohol beverages which was killing my calorie targets.

I started my keto again 8/29/21 (at 219) set my calorie target at 1,521 for max weight loss. As of today I’m at 209.5. I recognized that I should have lowered my calorie target from 1850 down some back in Feb. (or added exercise daily) I am also not very active so diet is my main weight loss control (but I have recently added 25 min walks too)

Weight loss is calories in < calories needed. Your bodies calorie needs is dependent on age, weight, activity level.

Just my thoughts, good luck getting past the plateau….I’m targeting 190 as my final goal.

(Bob M) #16

How does your body not figure out you’re eating fewer calories and therefore reduce your resting energy expenditure?

I’ll let Gary Taubes explain it:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #17

You don’t find that your metabolism slows to match the amount of calories you consume? Many people on these forums have reported that their fat loss didn’t really begin until they started eating more, not less. As long as they avoided carbohydrate, their insulin level was low enough to allow excess accumulated fat to be shed and metabolised.

#18

Because it’s not very flawed and it won’t start things which should be used in starvation when there is a modest energy deficit? I know some people get metabolism slowing instead of fat-loss when eating a bit below their need and I feel very very sorry for them. They not only can’t lose fat normally, they live using less energy than ideal so their body must work unwell to some extent. Our body isn’t wasteful (okay, sometimes it is. mine does that when I eat too much so it could do its fav thing, maintaining. it’s extremely good at that, of course it can’t do it when I eat little but that’s what its urges are for), it uses the big energy need well, for good things we should have at that level. We can survive on less but it’s not so good. As far as I know but it’s totally logical to me. It doesn’t make sense to waste precious energy when the body works perfectly fine with less. It’s not so perfectly fine then.

But whatever is the case, many of us clearly experience no fat-loss when eating at maintenance levels (we maintain there… what else would we do, waste precious fat reserves without a need? I don’t get how people do that but fine, they may do that. MY body loves maintaining and only wastes energy if I overeat, it seems) while eating less than our energy need (no matter if we know how much that is. some people lose fat skipping a meal or eating as little as they can, neither are good for everyone but works great for some. but many people figure out their need from their fat-loss while others can’t do that as they don’t lose fat according to the calories. but many people do) results in long steady fat-loss, no matter the carb intake.

Each to their own.

I still don’t like enforcing the small guesswork calorie limit that so many people do but if that works for them… On keto, I usually advise people, especially heavier ones just to do it in a more relaxed way, it easily can help without stressing about calories (that is good not to do in the very beginning anyway… unless maybe if quick fat-loss is a must but that’s an extreme case).
My case is simpler, I can’t control my calories much - only through very very good food choices. And those have other benefits as well :slight_smile:

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #19

Thanks for this link, Bob. It’s a great article! I think the forum should have a ‘required reading’ list or at least a strongly recommend reading list. This article belongs on it, whether required or recommended.

(Marianne) #20

I’ve never tracked calories on keto. In the beginning, I was so terrified that this was going to be another program to lose weight that wasn’t going to work, I just followed what people here said and what I read on dietdoctor.com. For a couple of months, I tracked fat, protein and carb macros and ate to satiety, and that worked. I lost all my cravings for carbage, loved what I did eat, and lost 75 lbs. Yes, I’d like to lose another ten, however, I’m going to keep doing what I’ve been doing (2.5 years), and I know it will come off at some point in time. For me, I don’t ever want to return to weighing myself, calorie counting or calorie restriction. I am glad you have found what works for you. It’s an individual journey that morphs and changes along the way. Best!

(Marianne) #21

Saved for future reading. Thank you.

(Marianne) #22

I do wish this forum would have one closed thread (maybe Suggested Reading), that contained these such articles that people could peruse - or not. I would have loved that when I was a newbie and then as I sought to know more about the science of keto. Much of that I’ve gotten from the learned members here from what they’ve said in response to others and articles that they’ve posted from the experts. I think many people seek to understand, and these would be a helpful resource in one place.

(Bob M) #23

We should make additional ones for:

  • Cholesterol (my LDL is high!)
  • Why am I not losing weight and what can I do?
  • Ketones
  • Blood sugar

Anything else?

I always thought I’d like to write a primer about how to analyze studies and the like. Never have time for that, though.

(Marianne) #24

Yes. And maybe “How does it work?” I purchased Dr. Fung’s Obesity Code when I started and that helped me understand a lot - but it was a book, not something as succinct as an article.

#25

A true keto diet is 70-90% of calories from fat. For simplicity, fat satiates and you decide that you are not hungry, so you eat/consume fewer overall calories. For example, your resting MR is 2000 calories before starting, and with keto or carnivore or the LCH protocol you now eat 1500 calories, you will lose weight. You have created a deficit. Because your metabolism once required 2000 calories at rest and now only needs 1500 calories, the body will self-adjust over time. I believe this is one of the main reasons why people plateau when using these protocols. Trying to raise this set point can be difficult and time-consuming. I deal with numbers all day long, so I like to measure everything. Blood tests before starting any protocol, and follow-up tests when things have changed. Measure macros in the beginning. Measure blood ketones. DEXA Scan (gold standard) to measure bone density, fat, and muscle mass. A DEXA scan will let you know if the loss is all fat or a combination of muscle and fat. A bathroom scale cannot do that. Maintaining muscle mass is very important as we age. I suppose for a morbidly obese person all weight loss is good. The above is only my experience and some friends and family members with Keto and LCH over the last 10+ years.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #26

I would not phrase things that way. My impression is that a ketogenic diet is one that keeps insulin low enough throughout most of the day to permit the liver to generate ketone bodies. Fat intake has the least effect on insulin secretion, so it is the macro that should be providing the energy that we lose by restricting carbohydrate. Fat should be eaten to satiety, not to some arbitrary percentage of calories.

But given that carbohydrate, because it is simply glucose arranged in various ways, has a significant effect on insulin secretion, it is restricting carbohydrate that lowers insulin sufficiently to permit ketogenesis. As Prof. Ben Bikman likes to say: “Control carbohydrates, prioritise protein, fill in with fat.”

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #27

@ffskier Read the article linked above by @ctviggen. I think you will find it very apropos. Here, I’ll make it easier for you:

(Marianne) #28

Thank you. I read it yesterday. Very informative; pretty sad.

#29

These were my observations over a 10 year period. I was explaining something for sank of simplicity. I am generally not a proponent of the calories in vs out equation. I do not believe that all calories are equal, even though it may have come across as so. A 1000 calories of potato chips vs 1000 calories of wild salmon are completely different in how they act within the body and how they react differently in individuals. I do think there are too many variables that play a role in weight loss, some of which I don’t think we truly understand. Determining overall calories consumed neatly explains why we plateau.

#30

“Fat should be eaten to satiety, not to some arbitrary percentage of calories.”
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, most experts in the field, including Johns Hopkins recommends a percentage of macro calories when doing the Keto protocol. For example, 75% of calories from fat for type 2 diabetes.