Scientific description of how salt is used during nutritional ketosis

(Kipp Howard) #1

I know that a regular amount of salt is used during nutritional ketosis. It was even described in one of the podcasts I listen to (2ketodudes, ketotalk) but I cannot seem to locate that podcast or any good description on the net. There is a video with Phinney and Volek (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNV0GJcrqp4) where they discuss required salt intake but don’t discuss the metabolic process where salt is used. Could someone provide a description of what the body is doing with salt and why it is required?

Thanks

Hello, new here and new to the keto way of living and I have a few questions
(Kerri Hines) #2

One reason we need more sodium is due to lower insulin levels as insulin creates sodium retention
http://m.ajprenal.physiology.org/content/293/4/F974.full

(Kerri Hines) #3

Not sure if this is really a good science link exactly but I think it’s has great info and explains its sources.
Maybe it’ll still help in gathering a deeper understanding of the sodium needs.


I also think it offers interesting insight into drinking only to thirst rather than trying to force down certain quantities of water as seems to be a popular thing…

(Peter Barney) #4

Heads hurting but a great read :slightly_smiling_face:

Salt
(Kipp Howard) #5

This article was much easier to read than the first. It was also more interesting. Thanks for posting. I’m still not finding what I’m looking for. The closest comments say"…all carbohydrate-restricted diets, even ones providing 50-60 grams of carbohydrate like Dr. Hoffer’s mixed diet, are natriuretic – they make the kidneys dump sodium.". I’m looking for a description of why the kidneys dump sodium. I’m curious if the generation of ketones is what causes sodium to be dumped.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natriuresis, it says that due to osmosis, water in the blood is dragged out to the urine which lowers blood volume. This seems to explain why water is so important in the ketogenic diets.

(Kerri Hines) #6

The reason why was in the first link that explains how insulin causes sodium to be stored in the kidneys. Without the higher insulin, the kidneys do not store the sodium. It may have been more difficult to read but it has the actual science that explains it.
I honestly don’t think water is any more important on keto than anything else. I find the more water I drink, the more sodium I seem to need. If I simply drink when thirsty and not any other times, I feel more balanced on electrolytes.

(kimhowerton) #7

Since water flushes salt, this would make sense that the more water you drink the more salt you need to take in. Water poisoning is actually salt/electrolyte volume depletion.

(Richard Morris) #8
#9

I was feeling thirsty day and night on the Keto Diet even though I was drinking lots of water. I could not seem to get quenched until I started increasing sea salt on all my food.
Now I am not as thirsty and the food is even more delicious!

Does this make sense scientifically?

(Kerri Hines) #10

Absolutely. You can’t retain the water you drink without proper sodium

(Mike W.) #11

I still struggle to get enough sodium. Is drinking broth twice a day not unheard of?

(Dean) #12

I’ve been doing keto for some time, recently in the last month or so I get dizzy spells, also I feel my “adrenals” stress hormones? seem to be high, for the last couple days I have been focusing on getting at least 4-5000m of sodium a day, so yeah I will be drinking more chicken bullion

(Mike W.) #13

@Dflat Has increasing your sodium helped with the dizziness?

(Dean) #14

I’m not sure, I have been feeling better the last couple days so it could have been the sodium, I have been drinking couple cups of broth daily, I think I will continue to do so. how about you?

(Mike W.) #15

I usually walk out with a cup of salted broth instead of coffee. Seems to be helping. I can mostly tell when I haven’t eaten an avocado like I try to do for the potassium.

(Dean) #17

I guess i really need to take inventory of what I have been doing, i go to the gym 3-4 times a week and in the winter sit in the sauna for 10-15 minutes, I probably was getting really low on sodium.

(Ashley Haddock) #18

What if you’re one of those people who rarely feels thirsty and could go all day on just coffee and a cup or two of water? (Yes I have to force myself to drink a lot. I’m a sipper.)

(Zack F) #19

I know Peter Attia discussed this mechanism somewhere. I can’t remember where. Ugh! :frowning: