Saving or killing my father? HELP!

(Eric ) #1

So my father was diagnosed with T2 diabetes at age of 71 5’8” and 230 lbs.

I spoke with him at length about Ketogenic/LCHF nutrition to reverse it. Tough sell after 71 years of habit forming. But he gave it a try and did the best he could given his limiting factors (self doubt, no cooking skills, living alone among others).

He successfully managed to bring his A1c down from 10.2 to 5.7 in 2 months - although little to no weight loss.

The problem is the other lipid profile numbers. Here are the before and after numbers during the LCHF experiment:
Lipid profile: 3 months apart
Cholesterol 171 —> 212
Triglycerides 116 —> 141
HDL 43 —> 44
LDL-calculated 105 —> 138
TC-HDL ratio 4.0 —> 4.8
Hemoglobin A1c 10.2 —> 5.7

So while his old school Dr. was pleased with his A1c improvement he wants him on Simvastation due to “high LDL” levels. I’ve only heard bad things about statins but don’t want to give my father advice that could put him at risk.

Not sure why his triglycerides and ldl numbers went up so high (or are these even considered dangerous anymore)?

Looking for advice: take dr. advice and start another drug? How can he improve lipid profile with diet alone or can he? Are these numbers an immediate threat or can he work to improve with food before drugs ?

He exercises regularly - 2-3 times per day of walking/cycling/light calisthenics.

Thanks in advance for awesome forum and any help you can give!

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #2

Was he actually fasted for the second test?

(Tammy Kidd) #3

Great work on the A1c! I am not an expert on cholesterol but I do know from experience that it takes time to even itself out, I know mine did. I also know it matters what you eat or don’t eat right before the test.

(Eric ) #4

Great question. He said he had eaten breakfast “maybe 6 hours before the test.” He can’t remember what he ate or even if he was fasted for the previous test. As you can tell he is not what I would call a stickler for details.

(Rob) #5

Lack of fasting probably invalidates the cholesterol results (not that they are particularly bad).
As others have said, as you repair the body levels will fluctuate significantly and 2 months is far too early to expect stable lipids. Statins have no real upside and plenty of downsides as you can read all over these boards.

He’s doing great (as per A1C) and should push on. Weight loss should follow as will improvement in all around health. KCKO (in case you couldn’t guess :grin:)

#6

LDL is has two forms: the “low density” aka “good cholesterol” and a “high density” aka “bad cholesterol”

  • refer to “fat for fuel” by Dr. Mercola.

The standard test does not differentiated between the two.

#7

Those numbers are BARELY out of range and the “Standard of Crap” says 200+ gets a statin. Statins along with sucking at everything take out joints quick at any age, but would probably be real noticeable to him since it seems your father is active. Remember, they don’t fix LDL levels, they fake it for the tests. It’s like you going to take a glucose challenge and while the dr is out and your waiting, you shot some insulin to bring your high levels down. Ya, you “pass” the test, but you didn’t! Also, eating will absolutely have an effect on the test.

(Adam Kirby) #8

Not fasting for at least 12 hours before the blood draw will absolutely result in elevated trigs as @DaveKeto has shown.

#9

While I’m at it, i’ll wager that you father has had “keto flu”. If so, message me and I’ll ship some free keto-aid. I don’t know why but weight loss stalls during such events - but it’s way easy to fix.

(Rob) #10

Traditionally HDL is the protective ‘good cholesterol’. Small Dense LDL is bad, bigger fluffy LDL is fine. It is confusing since only the dense low density lipid is bad :grin:

#11

Dr. MERCOLAS fat for fuel offers a great explanation of the cholesterol paradox

(Sarah ) #12

Cholesterol code is a great website for detailed info about this

(Dan Dan) #13

The Difference Between LDL-C and LDL-P

Research has shown that high levels of triglycerides are associated with small LDL particle size.

Now, what does all this mean? It means that one person (person A) may have large cholesterol rich LDL particles, while another (person B) may have smaller cholesterol depleted particles. These two persons may have the same LDL-C concentration. However, person B will have higher LDL particle number (LDL-P). Despite similar levels of LDL-C, person B is at higher risk four future cardiovascular events. Furthermore, person B will have more small LDL-particles.

Some studies have suggested that the size of LDL-particles may be of importance. People whose LDL particles are predominantly small and dense, have a threefold greater risk of coronary heart disease. Furthermore, the large and fluffy type of LDL may actually be protective. However, it is possible that the association between small LDL and heart disease reflects an increased number of LDL particles in patients with small LDL. Therefore, the LDL particle count could be more important in terms of risk than particle size in itself.

https://www.docsopinion.com/2012/11/21/the-difference-between-ldl-c-and-ldl-p/

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #14

Okay. No worries next time 12 Hour fast.

Gotta do the test right or the results come back bad.

#15

I would avoid statins at all cost, there is no evidence of any benefit to males taking statins over age 70. There are many reports of damage due to muscle break down due lowered coq10 levels and increased symptoms of dementia because the brain requires cholesterol. This happened to my dad. It was heartbreaking to see. But he wanted to listen to his doctor and the family member that lived closest to him refused to help get him off the statins because “oh well dementia is what happens when you get old and i take Simvastatin too and the doctor said it was safe…” :cry:

(Olivia) #16

I highly suggest listening or watching Rhonda Patricks interview with Dr. Ronald Krauss on LDL Cholesterol, Particle Size, Heart Disease & Atherogenic Dyslipidemia. https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/ronald-krauss
He developed the technique to quantify low-density lipoprotein particle size and concentration. Ergo he is an authority in this field. During the interview, he says beginning with a LDL number of 190 is considered high.

(Ethan) #17

hmm. I am pretty sure the H in HDL stands for high.

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #18

I agree. This test result, unfasted, is not grounds for a statin. CoQ10 can be supplemented when taking statins. But I would view a statin as a last resort option for lowering small dense LDL particles and triglycerides… and only if they are way out of range and dietary intervention hasn’t moved the needle.

I have genetic predisposition to elevated cholesterol. But it is brought to normal with carb restriction. Triglycerides drop almost immediately, LDL takes a bit longer, and HDL increases slowly but surely with other interventions (red wine, exercise, some other things).

Bottom line: Either have dad be clear with doctor or you be clear with the doctor that this test was on only 6 hours of fast, and you’d like a retest under more ideal conditions before you do anything drastic, like take a statin drug.

(Ethan) #19

Also, higher than “traditional” LDL is associated with an overall LOWER risk of mortality for adults over 65.

(Randy) #20

You are saving him IMO!!! Look at the A1c!

Please get him retested after 12 hours fasted.

I’m firmly in the no statin camp, but everyone has to choose for themselves.