Continuing the discussion from Heart Disease:
Salt, protein, and carbs
VirginiaEdie
(Edith)
#2
I do not have heart disease, but I have done carnivore on and off for the past few years. I have found when I am strict carnivore, my frequency of heart palpitations goes way up along with muscle cramps. I really have to up my electrolytes on carnivore, particularly salt and magnesium.
That’s me. Other people on carnivore find they don’t need the extra sodium at all, but it may be something you want to consider.
Heart Disease
Salt, protein, and carbs
PaulL
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing)
#4
Dr. Phinney speculates that they get enough salt from the meat itself.
VirginiaEdie
(Edith)
#5
Unfortunately, no. If you think of any let me know. I’ve tried searching the web, but pretty much any information about carnivore and heart palpitations always centers around adaptation around the first few weeks.
I belonged to a carnivore Facebook group for a bit. The theory of that group was just that I was addicted to salt and needed to ween myself off of it. I tried it by removing the extra supplementation but still salting my food. Over time, I just felt worse and worse. I finally realized I needed to go back on the salt. My goodness, did I feel much better after resuming the extra supplementation.
I do feel like I’m in a Catch-22. Right now, I’m very close to carnivore (but not completely) because I really do feel it helps with my joint trouble. But, I HAVE to get about 1.5 teaspoons of salt a day in addition to what is in or on my food. If I forget, even for half a day, I can feel the heart palpitations begin and I start to feel like crud.
I find it very frustration. @Fangs tried to put it in a good light, such as - if one deer needs to stay longer at a salt lick, it stays until it gets what it needs, it doesn’t get upset that the other deer need less salt. lol. I’ve been considering trying to increase my carb level with fruit and rice to see if helps me hold on to sodium better. Fruit does not seem to irritate my joints.
PaulL
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing)
#6
Fangs is right. If you need more salt, you need more salt. What other people think is irrelevant. The fact that most carnivores find they eventually stop wanting to add salt to their food hardly has any bearing on what you yourself need.
My personal bias would be to avoid carbohydrate and increase salt intake, both because both sides of my family tree are rife with diabetics, so I want to avoid increasing insulin, but also because I have always loved the taste of salt.
BuckRimfire
(BuckRimfire)
#7
Seems like this is the cheapest and easiest possible dietary supplementation. Why so frustrated? It sounds like you have the situation figured out. Take the win!
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#9
I don’t know of any research, and I’m with you as a person who needs a lot of salt (and Mg sometimes too). I think the people who don’t need salt are outliers, not us.
Azi
(Linda )
#10
I just watched a rebutte of saladino …he suggested that it’s electrolytes and also that protein is too low have you tried upping your protein along with electrolytes virginal?
VirginiaEdie
(Edith)
#11
Gosh @Azi, I eat at least a gram of protein per pound of body weight. I take in 500-700 mg of Magnesium a day, plus my 1.5 teaspoons of salt mixed with some No Salt. I also take in 600 mg of Calcium a day. I could try upping my salt a bit more, but I’m over my tolerance a bit with the Mg. I had to up the Mg recently because the heart palpitations are worse when my Mg levels are too low.
Now from what I understand, Paul Saladino started eating carbs because he was having problems with heart palpitations. Or at least, that was the initial excuse I heard.
Yeah, I will up the salt to 2 teaspoons and see if that makes a difference.
PaulL
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing)
#12
The PURE study, and another one that published around the same time both showed that the healthiest range of sodium intake was 4-6 grams daily. (This translates to 10-15 g of NaCl). The risk curve is what they call J-shaped, with the risk of ill effects rising sharply as salt intake is curtailed, and more slowly for intake above the sweet spot (except in the case of people with salt-sensitive hypertension, whose risk curve is U-shaped, rising steeply on either side of the sweet spot).
The regulation of calcium, magnesium, potassium, and sodium in the human body is all interlinked. Salt is the easiest one to adjust in the diet, and keeping it in the healthy range is essential to keeping the others properly regulated. My bias is to believe that keeping salt in the right range goes a long way to minimise the need to supplement any of the other minerals.
There will, of course, always be people who will need more or less of these minerals than the majority of the population, but given that our ancestors somehow managed to survive over a two-million-year period without being able to purchase supplements at GNC, I believe it should be reasonable to expect that managing salt alone should suffice the vast majority of people.
Azi
(Linda )
#13
Your pretty active though you might need mere let me get you the link to what I watched
VirginiaEdie
(Edith)
#18
I’ve listened to the first hour so far. I have to admit, I would love to hear a debate between Paul and Bart about the reasons Paul was giving for his adding sugar back into his life. It’s possible he did try upping protein before he made the changes to carb and he just didn’t mention all the trouble shooting he did.
On the other hand, he sure is singing a different tune than he did previously. Definitely 180 degree turn around. It seems he’s almost anti-keto now.
I’m gathering from Bart’s interjections that increased protein would solve a lot of problems with carnivore. It would cause insulin to spike at least once a day to temporarily take the person out of ketosis due to gluconeogenesis, thus resulting in better blood sugar, better electrolyte balance, better thyroid function, etc.
I still have to listen to the rest, but I can try upping my protein. Like I mentioned, I’m already at 1 g/lb of body weight. I can try more.
One thing I’ve noticed though. When my protein is higher and I’m quite strict with carnivore, my left big toe hurts. It’s not gout. It could be something called hallux rígidus. Anyway, when I add a little bit of carbs in, the toe is not painful and it’s mobility improves.
Still, I love experimenting, so I’ll give more protein a try. I’ll probably start with 1.5 g/lb of body weight.
I’ll update once I finish listening to the video.
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#19
I would have to see data for higher protein. I’ve eaten 160+ grams of protein per meal, many times. Never been “kicked out of ketosis”. Not even sure what that means any more. (I stopped testing when I was 0.1 mmol/l every morning.)
Not sure how higher protein = better electrolyte balance, either. I still have to take in salt and Mg even while eating high protein.
Not sure how high protein causes better thyroid function, but I also don’t see carbs helping that either.
I had to reply separately, as the software told me I had replied to Edith too many times. Sorry about that, Edith.
If you want to increase protein, it’s easy to do. Top round is high in protein, for instance. According to this, it’s 25g protein per 100g product:
https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/fdc-app.html#/food-details/746761/nutrients
Though this is the first time I’ve used this, and find it hard to read. This is easier to see:
Azi
(Linda )
#20
High protein has always kicked me out of ketosis…
It’s why dr cywes has alot of his veteran patients cycling in high protein low fat days to force our bodies to use the glucose and stop turning it into stored fat. I tested my blood this morning before eating 4 hours ago and I was out of ketosis 0.
1 0n the meter and im still out after eating lamb 0.2. 4 hours later