Richard's Podcast on Metformin - What number is it?

[KathleenNW]

I’d like to listen to the podcast of Richard’s experience with metformin, but I can’t find it.

Thank you!

[LouiseReynolds]

@richard I know you’ve mentioned your experience of going on / off Metformin in the last couple of podcasts???

[Adam]

Have heard him speak about it on more than one show. Perhaps check out the podcast transcripts on this forum & use a search of the documents to see if the info is in there?

[Daisy]

Hmm. Yes, more than one - several at least. @richard can you remember?

There is some info on this post and I suspect if you look through the other posts that come up on a ‘metformin’ search you will likely glean more. Hope this helps…

Beating a Glucose Tolerance Test?

Does anyone know if it is possible for a reformed diabetic to beat a glucose tolerance test? My GP has been very supportive of a low carb diet and I have been sharing information with him about keto. I wonder if now it is possible to test as non-diabetic when taking the test? I have documented evidence of my drop in HbA1c from 9.8 (made a mistake when I posted in the Facebook page that it was 9.7) to 5.5 over a period of four months. I fully expect my next test to be lower still as I am aver…

[richard]

So I went off Metformin Aug 2016 and back on end of Nov.

My Fasting insulin in that time went from 13.7 mU/l to 19.8 mU/l and then after resuming metformin I did a subsequent test on the middle of Feb 2017 and it was back to 13.7 mU/l My glucose (HbA1c) remained stable in that time.

Now Insulin is a noisy number so that might just be observing identical values 3 numbers with a natural variation of peaks and troughs in insulin pulses. But I don’t think it is.

The point of going OFF metformin was to prove to myself and my doctor that I don’t require any glycemic drugs to achieve stable glucose … which I didn’t so that point is made. I am now back on metformin because it apparently makes me slightly more insulin sensitive, and in the long term that is a good thing for my longevity.

[LoungingJaguar]

What are your thoughts on Berberine? I understand it’s a “natural” metformin, but there may be some safety concerns.

[richard]

Berberine? I understand it’s a “natural” metformin

They are both natural. Metformin is an extract of French Lilac (or Goats Rue) which was apparently an ancient herbal remedy for excessive urination. So someone was paying attention and likely found some edge cases of diabetics who could become non-diabetic when they drank a tea prepared with the herb.

Berberine is a Chinese herbal remedy. The extract that has the effect uses a similar but not identical mechanism to Metformin. So the 2 might be complimentary (see your doctor before doing that tho).

[KetoCowboy]

I never knew this. It helps me understand why you (@richard) have elected to stay on Metformin even though your doctor said you could stop using it.

I listen to the 2KetoDudes podcasts via YouTube (not itunes), so I have consumed the various installments out of order (and unintentionally skipped some that get lost in the YouTube shuffle). So if I’ve missed a key bit of info, please forgive me.

That caveat aside, when I find a new (to me) installment of 2KetoDudes, I’m always interested in whether @Richard is off Metformin yet.

My logic runs thus:

1. Ketopians understand the importance of eating REAL FOOD.
2. Ketopians know that we should let food be our medicine and medicine be our food.
3. Ketopians generally attempt to achieve the best health outcomes by following the healthiest (and incidentally most satisfying) diet possible, so they tend not to require medications once they are truly fat-adapted,

Since I’ve always thought of Metformin as a pharmaceutical, I was perplexed by @Richard’s decision to keep consuming it after his doctor no longer considered it necessary. (The fact that Tim Noakes does the same thing means @Richard has an excellent role model, but I still always struggled with this decision to remain dependent on the global pharmaceutical machine.)

But @Richard’s explanation that Metformin is simply a natural extract derived from an herbal remedy has me rethinking my position. It sounds like Metformin may be closer to the magnesium supplement I take every day (without feeling that I am compromising my diet) than it is to most “medications.”

[richard]

To be fair most pharmaceuticals are something that was once used as a traditional remedy for a specific malady. Usually some researcher identifies the active ingredient, develops a method to extract just the active ingredient, and formulates a delivery mechanism that provides a consistent dose. But it’s usually a result of a smart plant rather than a smart scientist.

Statins are a mycotoxin, a poison made by fungus as a defense against bacteria. The first was found as an extract of red rice yeast. If you go to a Chinese herbalist with symptoms of dyslipidemia they’ll likely treat you with red yeast rice.

I reckon the only truly unnatural supplement that has been mentioned in the context of a low carb diet is the L-betahydroxybutyrate in exogenous ketones. That’s the left handed version that animals don’t make or use. You only get that when you make betahydroxybutyrate from non organic sources. Actually you get both the left handed and right handed versions. For some reason life on this planet overwhelmingly makes right handed versions of sugars and ketones, and left handed versions of proteins. No-one knows why, but the other isoforms are definitely what I would characterize as non-natural.

BTW: I’m still on metformin - but I did prove that I didn’t need it for glucose control
But it’s useful to keep my insulin lower. With metformin my fasting insulin is 13.7, without it is 19.8 mIU/L.