Recent experience with electrolytes


(Consensus is Politics) #1

We lose a lot of salt being Ketonian. Low levels of insulin slow the kidneys to let large amounts of salt to flow out. I read one study so far on the subject, and it appears to be a hormone [EDIT: Aldosterone is the hormone. It actually maintains the balance between salt and potassium] that causes salt retention or release, and its not insulin I’m referring to. I need to study up on this one, as its something I’ve never heard of before. So more on that once I learn more. Should be interesting.

This post is about something I’ve discovered while playing the ‘chase the right amount of salt’ game. It came down to this… eating a lot of salt on my food, drinking about a teaspoon per half liter of water. Almost 2 tsp in a half liter right before bed. If i did not do these things, I would awaken in the wee hours with the worst foot/shin cramps. I tested this many times. Tried less salt before bed, tried less salt during meals. Tried just water all day. These things didn’t work. Needed to be high salt, most of the day, and before bed.

A few weeks ago, I began to notice I was urinating way too often, and very thirsty. This situation is what led me to the salt studies. As far as I could tell, I was supplementing the bare minimum amount of salt, and probably needed more. Based on my latest lab work, I was .1 under for sodium. So I doubt I needed less.

But trying to keep up the intake of salt like that was getting unbearable. So I took a look at the rest of my electrolytes. My next stop was magnesium.

A lack of magnesium will also cause the same cramps. I couldn’t find any in my diet at all. My multi-vitamin had very little. So I went for the full on horse pill of magnesium, 500 mg.

After a week of that I began to notice my salt cravings reduce. Previously my cravings for salt were such that I could drink or eat heavily salted foods, and not even taste the salt until I was getting full. Now, during this magnesium trial, I could taste the salt in everything. To me that means its time to test. I began lowering my salt intake to the point where I was sure I’d get night cramps.

I did not get cramps. I reduced my salt intake to about half what I needed to stave off the cramps. Still no cramps. Once i was down to about 1/3 of what I had been taking to keep cramps away, they began to return, but only slightly. A couple of sips from my bottle of salt water took care if it within a minute.

I tested this now for the past two weeks. I’m eating roughly 40% as much salt now as I had been. That’s still a lot higher than a normal than SAD , but a lot lower than I had been on keto.

More testing needed. I’ll report back with a follow up in a few more weeks.


(Karim Wassef) #2

I supplement heavily with sodium, potassium and magnesium. The potassium is 300mg and magnesium is 1.2g a day.

Sodium I still take as pink Himalayan sea salt - a pinch every hour… more when I lift.

I fast multi day in addition to Keto on refeed, so it’s even more important.


(Consensus is Politics) #3

I haven’t had much luck finding potassium sups in tablets larger than 80mg. I’m helping the wife adjust her electrolytes. She is having night cramps regularly, and has tried keto for a month and gave up because of the additional cramps, and keto flu. She refuses to eat more salt, and tries to maintain a very low salt diet. She isnt doing it for any reason other than she doesnt like the taste of salt. I managed to get her to use a salt pill at night when she has a cramp. She eventually learned that the salt pill works everytime, takes maybe 30 seconds after swallowing it, cramp is gone. But she still refuses to eat more salt.


(Consensus is Politics) #4

Just something I found interesting, that might explain an issue I’m having with hypertension.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/primary-aldosteronism/symptoms-causes/syc-20351803


(Karim Wassef) #5

This is the highest I see in capsule


#6

Its interesting. I’ve been advised to eat 2 tsp of salt a day and I did initially. Now I don’t, just don’t like the taste of salt now. When I started keto I did like the salt.
I do supplement with a high dose of magnesium.
Prior to keto I used to get leg cramps at night. Now I don’t.
I am carnivore currently.


(Karim Wassef) #7

I add salt to everything, even my coffee and cocoa.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #8

The regulation of sodium, potassium, magenesium, and calcium operates through inter-linked mechanisms in the human body, so keeping sodium intake at the proper level helps keep all the others in balance. Several recent studies have all shown that people are at their healhiest on a daily intake of between 4 and 6 grams of sodium, which works out to 10-15 grams of table salt (NaCl). This includes salt already present in food.

Given that the high insulin resulting from excessive carb intake slows down the excretion of sodium and that a keto diet thus permits the kidneys return to their normal, faster rate, it would seem that ketonians could benefit from staying in the higher end of the salt intake range.

Here is a presentation by Andrew Mente, one of the investigators on the PURE study, on their findings regarding salt:


(Khara) #9

Interesting self study with salt vs magnesium. Have you or your wife tried the ketoaide recipe from this site? I’ve always been one to get night calf cramps but don’t have an issue on keto and I drink the ketoaide daily.


(Bacon for the Win) #10

Which salt tab are you using for your wife? If I don’t get a decent night’s sleep soon I’m going off the deep end!


(Consensus is Politics) #11

I wouldnt recomend using a salt tab. I beleive its only about 80 mg. Not enough in my opinion when its labeled as about 5% of the RDA. If you are having muscle cramps, you should first try to discover which electrolytes are off. That meaning which are too high or too low. That being said, if you think your sodium is low, do like i did. Try a half tsp of salt in 4 oz of water as a night cap. I’ve recently been having the perfect storm of VA appointments, to cause me to start looking into things I never considered to be related. Which all now seem to be unbelievably related. (i. e. A crushing accident in which my entire torso was crushed between a vehicle and a run away, 4,000 pound aircraft auxiliary power unit, kidney stones, relentless meds resistant hypertension, kidney tumor, chronic back pain, and diabetes).


(PJ) #12

Food sources of potassium
https://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/appendix-10/
They’re nearly all carby except clams…

This is really high-carb but for existing carboholics, orange juice concentrate has the highest potassium content I’ve ever seen.

Potassium in the USA isn’t sold in anything larger than 99mg because too much potassium can cause serious heart problems.


(Karim Wassef) #13

I found one!

:slight_smile:


(PJ) #14

OMG! I can’t believe I didn’t find that a long time ago. Got it!

My doc gave me a scrip for time-release potassium but I always wish I could get more of it.


(Karim Wassef) #15

I also use powder form for my shakes