Rampant misinformation on Facebook groups

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #1

I was in [EDIT: a major keto group on FB] for quite a while. Great to see people’s before and after shots, which is mostly what the group is.

Yesterday, I got banned.

Someone had posted their husband’s cholesterol results. Trigs and HDL were fine, but LDL was through the roof – well over 300. Now, this topic has been done to death here in the forum – I’m a hyper-responder myself, but I’m nowhere near these figures.

Everyone, including admins, were saying, “forget about it. You’re fine.”

I said something like, “don’t listen to the keto dogmatists. The science isn’t settled. Plenty of low carb doctors would argue that it might be effective to switch a lot of your saturated fats to monounsaturates like wild fish instead of red meat. There’s no downside to upping your fish and reducing your red meat intake.”

I was banned. They claimed I was “name-calling” and breaking their rule of “don’t be a jerk.”

Now I had my NMR done after my LDL got up above 200, and there was no clear result of “oh well yes it’s the large fluffy LDL particles.” Not everyone responds the same, and as Peter Attia has said, not every diet is for everyone. It just isn’t.

Those who are absolutely certain that sky-high LDL is nothing at all to worry about are being hypocritical. We got into this because the science points to LCHF being a healthy WOE. We didn’t get into it to bury our heads in the sand when the blood tests throw up results that aren’t great and explaining them away as, “well LDL doesn’t matter, they’re likely to be large fluffy particles anyway.” Bullshit.

It’s really annoying and disturbing to watch these keto zealots take over the “mainstream” of things. Intelligent skeptical people, like the people on this forum, are on the fringes. Now it’s just a fad diet being driven by religious nuts, it seems.

(E.O.) #2

Welcome to the club! (on who always gets banned there)

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #3

YES! Thank heavens, I’m not crazy :wink:

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #4

That is why one should not join FB keto pages unless it is Kickass Keto Bitches. The attitude and misinformation on those is why the 2 dudes started this site, the FB page that had just got too large to manage well.

KCKO

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #6

For your edification, here is a post from one of the admins of that page. It’s like living under the Taliban there (I’m removing the name of the particular group in my OP):

So I’ve been deleting a lot of posts lately, so maybe it’s time to discuss…

WHAT HAPPENED TO MY POST??!!**

  1. Progress pics in underwear or too revealing . Guys. Just cover thyself. We can still see your progress without seeing your undies or your mound.

  2. If you have a food related question or a food picture, it will be deleted. All the food belongs in the Kitchen!

  3. Does your post contain swear words? It will be deleted! We keeps it family friendly around here. :blush:

  4. This is a keto group and we really do not want or need to hear about all the specific carbage you did or did not eat. Please do not list the carbage!

  5. “Seriously?!! My post was deleted?”

Bad idea. Cuz now this post will also be deleted, and you’re risking a meeting with the ban hammer. If your post was deleted, look at the pinned post at the top of the page and you’ll likely figure out why. PM one of us, your friendly neighborhood admins and we will try to help. But posting a negative snarky remark will not help you. Like, at all.

  1. Know the difference between a confession and a plea for help. “I fell off the wagon and ate ((insert list of carbage)). I feel like crap. Back on track tomorrow!” OR “I’m having a really hard time y’all. How do you stay on track when you’re faced with your old favorite junk food?”

One of these will be deleted, the other allowed. Leave your confessions for your SO or your diary, please.

  1. “OMG this is so funny! ((Insert funny video that has already been posted a gazillion times today))” DELETED.

  2. An 8 minute video? It may be awesome, but I’m not spending 8 mins of my life trying to vet it before I allow it in the group. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

  3. Does your pic or post include your IG or blog or personal fb page or some other unauthorized personal promotion? Not only will the post be deleted, but you will be removed from all [redacted] groups for self-promotion.

  4. Rants are often deleted; some are ok but many contribute nothing positive so they have to go. Snarky posts or jerky remarks will be deleted, and can easily get you removed from the group. We want to keep a positive and supportive atmosphere and that kind of attitude is not conducive to that goal.

  5. We will not enable you by giving you tips on how to cheat then get back into ketosis quickly. If you ask this, your post will be deleted. You get back into ketosis by doing the same thing you did to get into ketosis in the first place. Don’t complicate it by trying to find a way to do it “quickly”, just keto on and stay consistent. You got this.

  6. Egg fast, ground beef and butter fast, cleanses and other fad diets are not discussed in [redacted] groups. We promote a healthy attitude toward food and fad diets do not.

  7. For some reason there has been an increase of pointless posts, kind of like “dear diary” moments with no question and no clear objective. If we cannot figure out what the heck you want, we may just delete your post.

  8. If your post looks like the first half of the latest James Patterson novel, it may be deleted. If it is a really busy day we are so sorry that we just do not have the time to read really long posts. Yes, we really do read every post before we approve it!

There is a fantastic FAQ in the files section I encourage everyone to take a look at. Great info in there that helps you learn the rules of the group.

I hope this helps some of you since the admins do not have the time to message personally each person whose post is deleted.

Keep being awesome, y’all! :grinning:

#rulesforawesomeness

(Empress of the Unexpected) #7

That’s unbelievable. And they say the group is supportive. I wouldn’t last a minute. As a newbie I am still learning to formulate questions, and sometimes my posts are kind of “what is she trying to say?” And people falling off the wagon should ask for and get support. I could go on and on.

(Doug) #8

:smile: Yes… It looks like a really fun place. :roll_eyes:

(Alec) #9

Sounds like a fun palace. I am glad I found my home right here. :slight_smile:

(Dom DePlume) #10

The innerwebz is a great place to forget that not only do you have a right to express a contrary opinion, but (gasp!) other people do, too! That’s why I started my own Facebook alt.keto group, too. Not to reign supreme, but to keep things civil. The rancor and pissynessitude got to the point where I simply couldn’t take it anymore, but yet, I value the support that tribe and community provides. At least here I know people won’t jump me if I so much as type the word “d0ughnut”…

Thanks for bringing this up, @gabe…

(Empress of the Unexpected) #11

I’m just thankful I didn’t find FB first because it might have turned me off to the whole Keto thing. My not being perfect, and all.

(Dom DePlume) #12

Right?!

(Alec) #13

However, I have seen a flow of fairly rude/objectionable/aggressive people wander through these forums too. My strategy is to simply not engage with someone I don’t feel is coming with the right attitude. I think we all need to sensor in this way, and not tolerate poor behaviour.

IMHO, the admins on this group are just pure AWESOME. They seem very patient and understanding and fairly liberal. But when they see poor behaviour, they are on it like a rat up a drainpipe!

Well done and thank you to our admins. Great job.
Cheers
Alec

(Doug) #14

Agreed, Alec. :slightly_smiling_face:

All those rules that Gabe presented from the Facebook group make the administrators there sound really imperious. I imagine it’s a mixture of their personalities and them being tired of what they see as bad/counter-productive behavior - and they probably have had a bellyful of stuff that most of us would agree is annoying at the least.

You’re right that this forum has had some trolls, but I’ve never seen so few, overall. I think that almost everybody here has common motivations; quite a good start.

(E.O.) #15

Dang those rules remind me of 2nd Grade–it is my ball and my bat so we will play by my rules or you can go home! Okay, bye, bye (can’t play a team sport alone)

#16

Those Facebook groups are on the same level as reddit, all the idiots and trolls just pushing THEIR idea and chasing everybody else out by pitchfork that doesn’t fall in line.

(Katie the Quiche Scoffing Stick Ninja ) #17

I can’t stand the Facebook Groups anymore.
I’m in two, one has already been mentioned here.
I voluntarily left a group as someone told another user they were fat adapted after 3 days. I had a very kind response politely informing them that no, I think they were confused with Ketosis, and to not to give out advice if you honestly don’t understand the process. I was told to ‘inform myself’ and that I was rude. Inform myself?! Gooodbye. Lol.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #18

Whew. Again, glad I’m not the only one who found this behaviour and these attitudes “imperious” as someone above put it.

Yep, I’ve never even noticed admins on these forums except for one “heated” debate about grass-fed beef I was involved in where the most intense stuff that was said between those of us arguing was, frankly, strong but not that big of a deal. The polite experience here reminds me of my days as a teenager hanging out with ham radio operators (I’m licensed, by the way) and I bet there’s a bunch of hams here, probably including at least one of @carl and @richard if I had to guess.

As for the misinformation: the dogmatists, especially on the FB groups, have left the science behind, as I think I said above. It’s bizarre to see a diet backed by science and which has been embraced by lots of engineers and science-types who are like, “yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and there seems to be lots of evidence for this” – taken over by irrational dogmatic zealots and egotists.

So I’ll state my biggest heresy here, having been stalled for about 1.5 years now (like a lot of people, as @carl mentioned in the latest podcast with Nina Teicholz): the common denominator of a lot of “diets” that work for “most” people is that you’re cutting sugar and refined carbs out. Nearly everyone agrees on this. So what are you left arguing about? Fruit and whole grains and potatoes? Even Nina said on the last podcast that for non-diabetics who are carb tolerant, potatoes are probably quite ok.

This is why I’ve become less dogmatic when talking to people – because most of them will prob achieve 90%+ of the results if they just follow the lowest common denominator. Personally I try to stay very low carb, and will veer into a ketogenic diet every month or two, but I’m not going to argue with paleo people about whether or not they should eat a mango when we agree on 98% of everything else.

^^^^^ This post would’ve gotten me banned from the keto group on facebook I was referencing :wink:

(Alec) #19

Well, they are just barking mad then. You’re well out of it. Focus your efforts here! :-):grin:

(Bella) #20

Hi Gabe,

I gave up Facebook 6 years ago and never looked back.

(Jay AM) #21

Couple of questions here. Also, in your next posts about the group with the rules and such, it clearly lists who they are. In case you wanted to hide those too.

How did your NMR not show particle size?

Also, the metabolic pathway that uses ketones (known as ketosis) is for everyone from an evolutionary and survival stand point. Otherwise, we likely would not be here as a species. So, either we developed a weird gene that somehow stuck around and tribal people died of high cholesterol or, it wasn’t an issue for whatever reason.

Yes, cholesterol has been done to death here but generally not the direction you took it so I guess I’m confused.