Quick newbie macro question

(jjc155) #1

hey guys, new to the forum.

I’ve been eating strict Keto for the past 30 days, have lost 15lbs, feel great both physically and mentally and have been able to get back into the gym. I think that I’m doing pretty good with the diet and have a pretty good understanding of the what and whys of it. I do have one quick question about macros.

The way I understand it is that your daily macro limits are pretty much a “don’t go over number” and not actually a number to try to hit?

In these 30 days I have NOT exceeded my daily allowance of 21g of carbs, 155g of fat or 144g of protein.

My daily average across the past 30 days has been: 18g carbs, 133g fat and 112g protein.

I’m not so much concerned with the carbs or fat as I’m not too far off of what my max’s are but my protein is consistently low despite eating and doing what I can think of to up it (been adding protein powder to my morning shake, eating fish and cheese etc), with out throwing carbs/fat out of wack.

Do I need to be real worried about this consistent difference in my protein allowance and my actual intake?

I feel great and do not seem to be loosing any muscle mass.

Any insight and/or idea’s to boost my protein with out throwing everything out of wack or am I doing decent as long as my fat is more than protein intake?

Thanks and sorry for what is I’m guessing a real newbie question lol,

Also guys I’ve been using Stupid Simple Keto app on my Iphone for tracking my macros/food intake and seems to be pretty easy and idiot proof (which is what I need lol). Any other/better apps that I should look at now that I’m sure that this is the lifestyle change that I needed.

J-

(Rob) #2

You have to tell us your weight, height, gender and age to make a useful assessment. Also, what keto calculator gave you that protein number?

What we know is that you can do very well on 0.8g/KG of lean body mass all the way up to 2 or even 3g/KG. You won’t know what works for you until you try different quantities and see what happens. The good news is that it may well not matter if you hit the target number or not and your progress proves it. Since the number seems pretty high unless you are a large, exercising man, missing it probably isn’t an issue.

For instance, if you take the 144g target (which sounds pretty high unless you are very large), at 1g/KG LBM would suggest 144KG or over 316lbs of lean body mass and well over 400lbs body weight if obese. At 2g/KG (a pretty high number), that assumes 160lbs/220lbs.

The other slight concern is that if your macros are right, you have been missing the overall implied calorie total by over 300kcal per day. That is not disastrous but may be slowing your fat adaption, especially if your calculator already gave you a deficit. However, you are doing very well so this probably isn’t an issue for now.

Anyway, don’t worry but give us some more info, please.

(Allie) #3

That’s a heck of a lot of protein which would be too much for many people.

(jjc155) #4

Male, 45, 5’11, started at 235lbs and the macros and other calcs came from the Stupid Simple Keto app. The app asks for level of activity and I put moderate. I thought that it seemed high. Based on my goal of getting down to 190lbs the app put me at 2056 cals a day but I’m averaging 1737 a day actual (as calculated by the app).

Was very active until about 4 years ago when I came down with Rheumatoid Arthritis. I was 210 when I was diagnosed, was running and working out 5-6 days a week at that time. Maintained a fair amount of activity but my diet had gone to shit after I was diagnosed I suspect mainly because I was depressed as shit for quiet a while after and turned more toward alcohol to cope with the depression and the pain I was suffering. I’ve since got my RA meds dialed in and do pretty well with pain and cut drinking down to an occasional bourbon from several drinks a night before.

Thanks for any additional help that this info can bring,

J-

(Rob) #5

So the macros are OK, but on the low side for fat and high side for protein (about 67/30/3). Ironically, it is typically what most new ketonians do anyway, too little fat and too much protein.

So from your stats you probably have about 150lbs of LBM, which is about 68kg. This puts the range of safe protein from about 54g to 120g. Pretty wide. You’ll see a lot of debate about protein levels and with a recent Dr Bikman lecture it has become even less clear. Some advocate low end, some say it doesn’t matter as long as you keep carbs low. What it means is that you should experiment with the level and how it works for you. You definitely don’t need to get 144g a day. If you do hit that level or more, it’s not unsafe for a day or three, just don’t do it consistently.

Since it has worked so well so far, I’d keep your protein high like you are (100-120g). You seem to be thriving on it. If things start slowing or stalling, try a lower level of protein and see what happens. I vary from 70 -140g depending on the menu each day, though I tend to keep it under 90-100g.

As for the calories, if you want to increase them, if you up you fat levels just a bit you will make up the calories without any major effort. Look to substitute fattier proteins for leaner ones, add a dab of butter here, some mayo there, and you’ll get there.

Anyway, great work so far, and KCKO!

(jjc155) #6

cool thanks for the help I appreciate it!

Any better keto calc/tracker out there (since obviously mine is alittle off, lol) that I should be looking at?

J-

(Allie) #7

They’re all just guides tbh, you’re better off using the formula mentioned above. No one really needs the amount of protein we have been led to believe we do. I suggest going mid-range of the above numbers and seeing how you go, but be prepared to make adjustments if needed.

(Rob) #8

The standard advice is to use this approach.

  1. 15-30g carbs.
  2. Pick a protein level based on LBM
  3. fat to satiety - though until you have a good grip on satiety you might want to aim to eat fat up to your TDEE

In your case it would be something like 20g carb, 110g protein (2g/kg LBM) and up to about 160-200g of fat, depending on how active you are being. As your appetite fades, keep the first 2 and let the fat fall with your satiety. Good luck.

#9

If your aren’t eating more because you are satiated, you are probably fine, but don’t try to resist when your workouts start making you hungrier.

Protein needs are extremely variable, based on activity, insulin resistance, exercise history, and probably 173 things we don’t know about. I’ve been successful so far at 2.2g/kg LBM, about 150g total, my wife is happy at 0.8g/kg LBM. I think your body will tell you when you’ve had enough.

(Chris W) #10

I would agree with what others have said,
I started in a similar size and age, I was using a protein level of 1. and have since cut it down to .75 ish after you do it for a while you understand what your body needs more and more.
Don’t start cutting fat quite yet, I learned this the hard way, keep the fat levels up and you really start to feel energetic once fat adaption starts to really kick in.
The macros are guides, carbs being the most important not to hit, the fat being second and you should be trying to hit until you are full, Protein should be overall target high or low at 30 days will be of little issue, the longer you are in ketosis the more flexible you can become with this on a daily basis, but ideally never really going over.

(jjc155) #11

So i did a little recalculating and looks like i was able to adjust the macros to something a little more inline with what sounds right. Now I’m looking at 172g fat,109g protein and 21g carbs total cals/day 2067. Still worried that I will have a hard time actually consuming that much fat in a day short of spoonfuls of bacon grease lol.

Any suggestions on upping fat? I make fat bombs occasionally, cook with butter and oil and put MCT in my shakes and coffee.Again I understand these are guidelines but I know i the fat one is the most important not to short consistently.

Thanks again for all he help guys.
J-

(Chris W) #12

HEY WE SAID THE RULE IS 20G OF CARBS ! (just kidding).

Are you in the states? I would tell you to think about eating more fish for a number of reasons, salmon in particular. Costco if you are a member or have one near is a great place to buy keto friendly foods. Salmon patties for me in the first few months were a mainstay. High in fat(omega-3’s). Eggs, bacon, sausage, salmon patties, cheese sticks and gaucamole cups were my mainstays(still are). All were purchased there save the eggs.

Adding fats to your greens is pretty standard, mayo, ranch, EVO, etc. I avoid (and recommend you do) soy oil based products now because of inflammation so you do have to read the labels a little more carefully, that does rule out almost all store bought mayo currently. I eat my spinach with the bacon grease at my first meal, or make a omelet and keep the grease on the plate as I microwave my bacon slightly underdone. Coconut oil fat bombs are great for early on when you need that boost of ketones. Butter on things, like steak, that has lots of fat. Sometimes I cook in EVO or Avacado oil, then add butter to and cheese like Brussel sprouts roasted at the end, and the I dip it in a sriracha-mayo I mix up(4 fats right there).

(jjc155) #13

yep in the US. I do eat quite a bit of salmon and have both a sams club and costco memberships and usually get it at either or.

So reading your reply it isn’t that much different than what I’m already doing with the exception of adding dressing, oil, fats to things which I’m def gonna start doing. I’m still trying to break the thinking of fat being bad, lol.

My eggs/omlettes are typically fried in the grease from the bacon i just fried for the meal (are you adding that as part of your fat macro count?). I like the idea of throwing in some spinach or kale to the fat to fry up.

Thanks for the info I truly appreciate it.

J-

(Chris W) #14

Well honestly I never really thought about the grease from the bacon as separate, but I don’t waste it either. One thing about food labels, and calculators they are only so accurate. One piece of bacon to the next could be entirely different fat levels.

I do add evo to most of my cooking like the eggs and I add a tablespoon for the whole day. I also pour my coconut oil into ice cube molds so it makes the counting a little easier.

Before fat adaption, I was always a little low on fats, and high on protein. Say for example I was at 100g of fat and 95g protein for a while were my macros. I would get maybe 85g of fat on day and 110g of protien, if you are doing similar don’t sweat it too much. The longer in the more I realized I like fat, and desired it more and more. After fat adaption esp lately I am always a little higher on the fats, I also am keeping less track of protein and more relying on my gut. I do on occasion eat pats of butter, and really enjoy fat and salt now. But because I have a really good grip on the volume based on 6 months of practice now.

I will also add I have cut out almost all sweets(but not all) in the form of stevia etc, and I think that plays into liking fat more.

#15

My favorite ways to boost fat: add chia seeds to almond milk shakes, eat avocados, eat peanut butter (natural, no sugar or oil other than peanut oil), add extra v olive oil and butter to most meals, add heavy whipping cream to shakes and anything possible, and add more peanut butter and avocado to everything. Avocado oil is great too. I used to eat a lot of fatty beef and bacon and cheese all the time when I first started, then I found out I feel so much better and lose a ton more weight with foods like the ones I mentioned. Eggs are excellent too. Peanut butter doesn’t go too well with those, but the whipping cream and chia seeds do.

(jjc155) #16

cool thanks for the info Holly.

J-

(Allie) #17

Keep in mind that you don’t HAVE to reach the fat macro if you’re not hungry.

(Ken) #18

If you’re training hard, you can go up all the way to 35% protein, with a 60/35/5% macro. Myself, when training heavy, I get aches and pains in my muscles if I dropped significantly below that. Rightly or wrongly, I interpreted the symptoms as a protein deficiency and the start of Catabolism. To add muscle you need a positive nitrogen balance that adequate/moderate protein provides. Either way, when I ate around 35% protein the problems went away. I was able to add around 40lbs. of muscle over about six years. (an estimate) It’s slowed down since, but I’m not now the Gym Rat I used to be.

(Diane) #19

When you scramble eggs, you can add in extra yolks and/or some whipping cream to up the fat. Good snacks are macadamia nuts, pecans, avocados, olives, creamy dressings like blue cheese or ranch, a sauce for wings with hot sauce and melted butter, pork rinds with guacamole or cream cheese, and Brie is a good fatty cheese.

(jjc155) #20

thanks Allie, that is typically the reason when I don’t hit it.

Thanks for the other info too guys. Def getting great idea’s.

J-