Im 65 yo I have been diagnosed with pre diabetes via a blood test, having researched ways to overcome this issue ( I will under no circumstances take prescribed poison.)I found that a "keto diet " may be a solution but having spent my whole life as a vegetarian, and allergic to eggs ,I find that the foods for this diet are totally alien, which seem to be comprised mainly of fatty meat,eggs and seafood smothered in fat with a limited varity of vegetables and no fruit.
So whats left to eat if you take out all meat/fish, eggs and limit total carbs to next to nothing?
Any comments.
Questions from a vegetarian
oldfart
#1
islandlight
(Laurie)
#2
Yes, most of us eat meat, but that āsmothered in fatā thing is a myth. Many of us miss fruit and so on, but we do what we have to do.
Iām sure youāve already done your own research. The following seems fairly comprehensive. Just ignore any mention of eggs. Best wishes.
djc985
#3
Itās not impossible, I know people who have done it. I think any diet that consists of sugar, white flour, and seed oils is going to give many people some metabolic dysfunction. Vegetarian can be nebulous; is it whole foods such as veggies, fruits, and nuts, or does it consist of bread, pasta, sweets, etc? Many people who switch from the SAD diet to a whole food vegetarian diet seem to do well.
For keto, staples would be avocados, cauliflower, broccoli, kale, spinach, etc, some berries such as blueberries and raspberries, olives, and nuts such as macadamias, almonds, walnuts, etc. Olive oil, avocado oil, or coconut oil to add for more fat.
Polly1
(Polly)
#4
Welcome to this forum @oldfart.
I have heard that vegetarian keto is possible but might be quite hard work to get the right balance of nutrients.
Bearing in mind that your 65 years of vegetarianism have delivered metabolic syndrome for you is there any particular reason why you would not consider a radical dietary change and try, for example, eating a carnivore diet?
Fangs
#5
Your fruits and veg and carbs are what has made you pre-diabetic.
So you got this BIG change coming in that you have to dump that sugar intake down but with vegetarian many rely on that.
Key is meat protein and it falls to you to decide what you will allow and wonāt allow in your life on your own plate.
So it is all about you 
There is no slathering of the fat over meat only for many of us as SO many think out there 
ugh on that stupid info out there.
But again it is what meat will you allow. Meat/seafood/fish and fowl. 0 carb. Add that, cut down the very high carb fruit and veg and control any other crap food like pasta intake etc. which is carb loaded and you got a startā¦but that is very personal to you on your change. Only you can truly decide what meat/seafood/fish/fowl you will allow in your life. Once you pick your way you have a path!
best of luck
Shinita
#6
Well, no, my keto definitely never was like thatā¦ But I admit I half-live on eggs, itās the common in my old vegetarian keto and my current default carnivore-ish 
Without eggs, itās tricky. But there are vegan ketoersā¦ Thatās totally extreme to me but a lacto-vegetarian keto should be a bit easier.
There are quite many plants to eat. Nuts and other oily seeds and their flours, fibers, vegetables (not much unless you like very low-carb ones, I LOVED vegetables but couldnāt stand most green leaves so I never could eat more than 1 kg vegetables even on my 40g net carbs keto and I missed vegetables due to this. 1 kg is very little, I couldnāt use less cauliflower for some fried riced cauliflower so I had to ban that tasty dish 
erm I got carried away) and all the fruits if you ask me, I definitely never kept myself from the very sugary ones but those were used as accents, candies, not as food. Fruit never was food to me so it was okay. So even if I ate 6 different kinds of very sweet fruits a day, it was very very little carbs. It worked and works for me. Before carnivore I needed fruits every day, now itās very optional. I have a fruit garden with fresh fruit for several months and I LOVE fruits just dislike sugars so I eat a little and itās wonderful as good sweet fruits are so flavorful a little goes a long way especially with training. I donāt go and eat some bland apple, that doesnāt worth it. Oh and the only fruits I avoid are melons, they just canāt be eaten in a tiny amount and getting much joy and not frustration from it. If I really want some kind of it despite I love most fruits more, I have a not keto melon day a year and thatās it. But I better stop, I could talk forever about my precious, lovely fruits. I even forgive their sugar content, they are so wonderful.
And thereās gluten if you are fine with that. If I had to skip meat, I would eat seitan galore as legumes are too carby. As far as I know, gluten isnāt good for most people but I had gluten free years and nothing got any better so I guess I am not thatā¦? I still try to avoid it but keeping my carbs low is my priority. Oh and gluten actually can make me satiated and I donāt know any other plant matter that does that. Itās mostly due to its macros, little carbs, much protein. Good combo.
If you can get your nutrients somehow (even if I looked at vegan keto meals, I still have no idea how they do it) and merely miss vegetables at some pointā¦ Use much raw vegs. It saved me back then. When I was a newbie ketoer, I went back to the raw vegan blogs I knew. While 1 kg cooked/fried vegetables was close to nothing to me, I couldnāt even get close to that using raw vegetables (except tomatoes). They are more joyful, juicy, sometimes crispy, feels way MORE that way.
You canāt go super low on lacto-vegetarian keto without messing something up, thatās clear. 20g is something that some people can do and some not on that style. I am probably an extreme case as I am unable to eat more than minimal amount of vegetables using only 20g carbs, I often need this amount for my animal products alone. But many people do normal keto at 20g. Vegetarians have it harder and vegans even harder but itās possible.
But I still would try to figure out if you can go higher with your carbs. 20g is super limiting, 40g was hard enough for me as an egg lover vegetarian (I typically eat 6-12 eggs a day since a decade, it helps me tremendously. itās still not easy all the time so I couldnāt do keto in your stead but it IS possible as we see from some people)ā¦ I always used net too as total carbs never seemed to matter, I am sure I often was at 80-100g total on vegetarian keto and I got fat adapted just fine. But I consider myself lucky, itās way too much for many people. 20g is the pretty safe number but some people must go even lower to reach ketosis, itās just very rare, thatās why the 20g advice.
Back to āsmothered in fatā. No. I personally must seriously minimize added fat to avoid overeating and hunger. I ate much more on vegetarian keto though but only what the dishes needed to be tasty and nicely fried or whatever I did to them. I ate 150g oily seeds a day and my several eggs, I didnāt need tons of extra fatā¦ But without eggs and a huge amount of oily seeds, well, you need to get the fat from somewhere. You canāt live on mostly protein.
Another thing. Even doing keto most of the time and not all the time may be way better than not at all. And thereās low-carb as well.
I couldnāt even do keto first, I needed some low-carb years, <80g net carbs, no overly processed stuff, no gluten first, sometimes no lactose, close to paleoā¦ It was already a drastic step but easy for me. And it was GREAT! Many people stays there and I loved it, I just needed something more low-carb eventually.
Then I did on/off keto and now on/off carnivore-ish (super little and very limited plants). I canāt stick to my default woe but my short visits to low or medium-carb are fine as long as those are occasional. I canāt do it in a more disciplined way - but if I would oh I just go back to my old low-carb, it wouldnāt feel good at all. So sometimes this weird partial thing is our best bet. And many people do it gradually, not jumping into some hardcore <20g net (or even total!) carbs lacto-vegetarian keto.
PaulL
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing)
#7
It is possible to do a vegetarian keto diet, especially if you are willing to allow yourself fish and eggs. And possibly dairy. But that all depends on your reasons for wanting to eat such a diet in the first place. What is really tricky, however, is a vegan keto diet. It can be done, but you will certainly have to take supplements.
Depending on your philosophical outlook, you may or may not want to hear that ploughing a field for planting kills and displaces many small animals, whose lives, I feel, should weigh just as much in our moral calculus as the lives of the larger animals whose lives we are trying to spare. No civilised person considers factory farming to be morally acceptable, but killing a humanely-treated animal for food can perhaps be justified, especially when we recognise that all food production involves the taking of life, including the lives of the plants we eat. Something to consider, anyway, though it may or may not help.
Shinita
#8
I agree, it matters A LOT what kind of vegetarian or low-carb or keto style one follows. Obviously they arenāt the same at all. One can eat tons of candies and cakes (Iāve even heard about vegetarians who pretty much avoided vegetablesā¦ I donāt say itās a bad thing but it still sounds odd to me ;)) and I only mentioned the very sugary stuffā¦ And one can do a healthy vegetarian diet too (healthy for them, I mean, there is no diet healthy for everyone. I function better on extreme low-carb, keto isnāt enough, vegetables makes me hungry, causing various problems due to overeating so itās not optimal for me. but it may be the best option for many).
I definitely felt better and lost fat when I switched from high-carb to low-carb and I ate meat maybe 5 times a year on bothā¦ There are so many other factors than being a vegetarian or not. And there is nothing essential in meat that we canāt get from other things. Just like there is nothing essential in non-animal food that we canāt get from animal food. It may be harder and the typical oh so sugary approach is surely not good for many, probably most but one may find a great vegetarian woe for them.
And sometimes eating meat is simply not an option. I definitely was turned off from meat for months when I ate any (I enjoyed the meat, I just didnāt want it again for many weeks afterwards), for decades. No idea what happened. But I never would have forced myself to eat meat and not to eat my beloved vegetables. Except if I would know for sure I need it for my health. There is little I wouldnāt do for health, well-being, energyā¦
And we can change a lot. And find solutions. Though this case is tricky indeed.
@PaulL: Fish is animal meat, vegetarians never eat it. Pescatarians do. Really serious vegetarians (or who I call them who makes really sure they donāt eat non-vegetarian things) donāt eat most(?) cheese either due to some non-egg, non-dairy animal part in it. When I was a vegetarian, I had no idea about that, oh well, I can live with that. But now I donāt see the point anyway. I eat eggs and dairy so I kinda support killing many young roosters and bulls. My line is elsewhere (animal torture) and I crossed that because I am selfish and need cheap enough meat I do what I can but my health is top priority, life is cruel. My many eggs help, they are from good sources at least.
In the beginning I did carnivore from good sources on a budget. I must say eating 0.25 pounds of meat a day on carnivore is not idealā¦ So I changed my ways but if didnāt give up to do it better later.
robintemplin
(Robin)
#9
Welcome @oldfart! Love the moniker, Iāll tell my husband he has company. Looks like you have received good info for your situation. Thereās lots of experience and good brains on here. I think youāll be surprised how fulfilling a keto diet can be. I too was a vegetarian for several years and had to limit them to stay under 20g carbs for keto. After eliminating enough foods though, your body can quickly identify which ones are still causing problems. Mine were veggies (go figure!) so I gave them up. Otherwise they would probably still be on my list of ālimit but partakeā. Good luck. You got this!
Melodie_Cordeau
#10
Hello there, couldānt be more of a newbie then this; litteraly seconds from my subscribtion. I was wondering, what are the problems with lentils and, chickpeas and lupini beans vs keto diet? Iām just trying to get more information, please donāt hate, I can picture myself eating a good part of the keto diet, but letting go of my main source of protein and fibers at the moment triggers a lot of surprise and questions 
Thank you for taking the time to read and answer me, also sorry for posting here I donāt know yet how to create a new categorie 
islandlight
(Laurie)
#11
Hi, @Melodie_Cordeau. Welcome. Iām not sure why you directed your question to me. Iām afraid I donāt feel qualified to answer. However, I believe the article I posted says that it can be difficult to do keto on a vegan diet because legumes contain carbs.
Perhaps someone else can answer your question. Good luck!
PaulL
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing)
#12
How easily one can do vegetarian keto depends on how strictly one is a vegetarian. If you are willing to eat eggs and dairy, it is easier. Strict vegan keto, on the other hand, will probably require supplementation.
The point of a ketogenic diet is to minimise insulin secretion in response to food. Carbohydrate stimulates the strongest insulin response, so minimising carb intake is essential to minimising insulin secretion. If you can find combinations of high-protein, low-carb foods that supply the essential amino acids, then they are what you want to be eating. If you are willing to eat fish (which is not, strictly speaking, vegetarian food, but some vegetarians are willing to eat it occasionally), then you will have an even easier time.
amwassil
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.)
#13
@Melodie_Cordeau The problem with (plant-based) vegetarian ketoā¢ is getting sufficient protein while keeping carbs low enough for ketosis. Grains and legumes are generally incomplete proteins so need to be eaten together - eg ārice and lentilsā. In both the protein is intimately associated with loads of carbs. Here are the numbers for rice and lentils:
Source
PS: The only viable non-meat alternatives are dairy and eggs. One could certainly do keto eating exclusively dairy. There are a number of plant-based fats: coconut, palm, olive and avocado oils for example.
Melodie_Cordeau
#14
Well thank you all!!
I actually had no idea that legumes needed to be associated with grainsā¦ Iāve been eating them for a while without themā¦ 
Thanks for creating this plateform and answering so fast!
@islandlight Sorry for directing it to you my intention was to ask under the same titleā¦ Not really good at this 
Shinita
#16
I never researched it but it makes sense to me that gluten may work instead of grains, it has the protein but way less carbs. Itās not a good option for for everyone, obviously, far from it as far as I know.
The problem remains that legumes are somewhat carbyā¦ But some amount may be oneās best bet on vegan keto, I can imagine that. But whenever I saw the meal (at first I wrote meat, I blame my carnivore-ish default woe :D) of vegan ketoers with <20g net carbs, they used special beans and black soy beans and the like, not the most common, carby legumes.
I donāt even understand how to eat vegetables without going over 20g but some vegans are very skilled at keeping their carbs low.
I couldnāt include legumes (except in tiny amounts of green peas and peanuts) even on my vegetarian keto where I ate several eggs and some dairy so I only needed a bit extra from my plants. Legumes are simply too carby. I ate oily seeds and vegetables instead. Now I would include gluten as well, my body seems to be fine with it even in big amounts but I never did that longer term and I am not sure itās right to doā¦ So if it were me, I would make researches and tried to get my protein from various plants, being careful about getting all essential amino acids in the right amount. Sounds a chore on keto. Grains and legumes are almost completely out. I would find the highest carb amount that works for me. If I had something special restriction (like no gluten), things would get even more difficult. Maybe low-carb with some restrictions would be enough? I know itās better for me to go quite low but I have no big problems on low-carb while an extreme low-carb vegan woe would give me stress if no other problems. So that would be my first step, figuring out if fighting for keto is worth it and if it is possible for me.
@Melodie_Cordeau, if anyone hates you because you ask something politely (and I think you chose an okay place to ask this, not using new threads for everything is liked here)ā¦ Those people arenāt worth to worry about. This forum is basically a nice place, of course not everyone is nice to the same extent and itās unavoidable to get a bad egg here and there but most people are surprisingly cute even towards truly annoying, disrespectful people. For a while.
I for one always found challenges interesting though I am very glad I donāt need to try to combine keto and mostly plant eating, it sounds super hard unless one can afford a surprisingly high amount of carbs and still stays in ketosis.
robintemplin
(Robin)
#17
Hi, @Melodie_Cordeau and Welcome. The mainstay of my diet for many many years was veggies and beans. I love love love them. I began keto and included them. Then I saw how many carbs they brought and began eating fewer. Still happy. But as we start restricting the variety of what we eat, your body will begin to tell you what makes it happy and what makes it miserable. Personally I gave up veggies because they triggered my diverticulitis. Lived without them for a while and found that I felt better than ever. Then I realized that cheese, just regular cheese, made me lethargic and groggy. After dropping it (while keeping my heavy whipping cream and cream cheese), I felt worlds better.
HOWEVERā¦ a favorite saying here is YOU DO YOU. There are several folks on here who have veggies as a large part of their very keto diet. So it can be done and will work long term. You simply decide where you want your 20g of carb to come from.
You got this!