Questions about figuring Protein & Fat needs per day

protein
(Jeff) #1

I’ve seen several different ways to figure BMI/Lean Mass as well as a range of formulas for figuring protein needs.
I think I got way off when I did mine.
Currently 318 lbs.
Using this calculator I came up with about 181 lbs lean mass (I averaged the 3 results)
Lean Mass
Then converted this to kilograms to get about 82 kg.
Then read IDM on the amount of protein
IDM Protein
…and see that I should probably need somewhere around 65g (.8 x kg) per day for an adult male.
So should my protein intake be about 65 grams a day?
I’m trying to track my food using the Cronometer app on iOS and on day one I had 139.8g of protein without even eating a full dinner.
Today after just a 2 egg breakfast with 3 slices of bacon, 1 cup cottage cheese, and some sliced tomatos I’m already at 47.3 grams of protein.
What the heck?
Am I just totally over-eating protein?
Did I do the math wrong?
I thought I had seen some people talking about eating up to 100g of protein a day.
I’m a large man, but relatively sedentary these days with a desk job.

As for fat, I’ve seen things on here saying 70%-80% of my intake should be fat calories. Is that 70%-80% of my caloric intake or of my grams consumed?
How does that translate into fat grams?
Do I even need to track it that closely?
Yesterday I had 209g of fat and felt like I didnt have enough because Cronometer says it was 69% of calories.
I’m one of those odd people that can just eat a spoonful of coconut oil and not gag, so if I need to do that to get fat into my system, I can.

Also, the app told me that I had 49.6g of carbs and I thought I was being good. There must be a lot of trace carbs in things I wouldn’t think of as carb foods… like peanut butter (even unsweetened).

(Pete A) #2

Well I didn’t plug your numbers in myself and first off I would suggest plugging in your foods before you eat, even for the day if you can. Then you’re able to adjust as need be.

You may just be “overeating protein” and may want to rethink foods like cottage cheese (some fat, high protein) in favor of for example cheddar (more fat, less protein).

The 70% fat is 70% of total calories consumed. At 209 g I would think that’s plenty, and based on your narrative you over consumed the carbs.

(Jeff) #3

I guess the main thing I’m needing help with is whether or not I’ve done the calculations correctly for my daily protein.
65 grams doesn’t seem like very much to me.
A 6 ounce sirloin steak supposedly has about 45 grams of protein.
2 eggs and 2 slices of bacon together is almost 20 grams of protein.
those two meals would add up to 65 grams.
Is that really a day’s worth of protein for a 6ft tall, large-framed man?

(Pete A) #4

“Using this calculator I came up with about 181 lbs lean mass”

I do .8 x 124 lean body mass which comes to around 100 grams. I’m not sure what were doing different in our calculations!

(Jeff) #5

I think there is a confusion between Kilograms and Pounds.

On the IDM website I linked to above (in my original post) they mention the WHO (world health organization) standard recommendation of .8 g/kg/day (.8 grams x KILOGRAM of lean body weight x each day)
Then they (IDM/Fung) go on to say:
So, how much protein should you take? The average necessary would be 0.6 g/kg/day (around 50 g/day) and LESS if you are trying to lose weight.
(IDM is Dr Jason Fung of “The Obesity Code” fame)

Based on that, your lean mass of 124 would come to 74.4g-99g …BUT only if the 124 is in KG, not LBS. Is your lean body mass 124 KG? Thats 273 pounds of lean body mass. You must be a champion body builder!
I calculated my 181 LBS of lean body mass, and then converted it to KG resulting in about 82 KG of lean body mass. THEN I multiplied by .8 and got 65 grams/day.
If I used the IDM/Fung comment of .6 instead of .8, then my daily protein intake would be about 50!

I like your answer of 100 grams better, but that isnt what I’m coming up with.

(Pete A) #6

I’m in lbs. I don’t know anything about kilograms haha

Sorry for my confusion!

(Jeff) #7

So is Dr Jason Fung wrong when he says .6 g/kg/day?
He does qualify it when he says: What I am talking about here is what protein is necessary. I am not denying that some people do better with higher protein. But I suspect there are also many people who do worse.

My primary goals are weight loss and health (energy, stamina, mental clarity, avoidance of type 2 diabetes)
I dont want to be eating too much protein because it gets converted to glucose and that fights against what we are trying to do.

I guess unless someone else steps up to explain more about protein, I’ll just aim for “somewhere between 60 and 100 grams/day” and see how my body responds.

(Garry (Canada)) #8

I’m roughly 1/2 your weight for comparison. (Male 5’6" 77kg/170lb)

On average, to maintain my current weight I eat:

150g of fat/day

95g/day protein (which is on the high side at 1.2x body weight) 77g would be optimal for me. (1.0x total body weight)

20-30 net carbs/day

I also am sedentary for the most part. -No exercise.

(Pete A) #9

@Moood_Lift I don’t know about Dr Fung, but .6-.8 by LBM in lbs is pretty standard.

I would fixate on fat grams as in my case I always hit and mostly exceed a little bit what standard guides say I should have as far as protein, as long as I get my up to 120% or so fat.

@BeavertonGarry our numbers are similar scale based on height/weight difference etc so thanks for sharing!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #10

First, to calculate your protein need, multiply divide your estimate of lean body mass by 2.2 to put it in kilograms.

Second, the recommendation is between 0.8 and 1.0 grams of protein daily per kilo of LBM, more if you lift weights, so you have some flexibility there.

Third, the way to figure out how much fat you need is by keeping your carbohydrate intake under 20g a day and replacing all the calories you’re no longer getting from carbohydrate by eating fat until you are no longer hungry. Your body will tell you when to stop, so there is no need to count calories or calculate percentages. If your body feels it is getting enough energy from your diet, it will start to metabolize your excess body fat and will signal you when to stop eating. (Dr. Phinney says that for most people, their satiety signal kicks in around 1500 calories daily, when they start eating a well-formulated ketogenic diet, and then their calorie count gradually increases as their body fat diminishes.) The point is not to count calories, but to let your body signals do that for you.

(Sarah ) #11

Of all the common nut butters, peanut is one of the worst. Probably not a good thing to eat while you are adjusting to keto. Check out the visual guides to low carb foods on dietdoctor.com Those basic foods will get you through the first few weeks.

(Sarah ) #12

Devide not multiply (pound to kilos)

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #13

Oops! Thanks so much for catching that! I’m going to edit the post to avoid further confusion.

(Garry (Canada)) #14

So for example…You’re saying that for me (sedentary) at 170 total pounds (77kg) @ call it 25% body fat, I should consume only 46g of protein? Is this correct…because if so, I’m eating twice the required protein?

77kg
25% body fat
75% LBM = 58kg LBM
58kg LBM * 0.8g/kg protein
46g protein?
Right?

Don’t take offense, but I have difficulty with accepting this calculation. Not that I’m saying you’re wrong… It just seems considerably lower than any macro calculation I’ve ever used. I’m going to start another thread and see what our community thinks I should consume, because I may be out to lunch here with my thoughts. :slight_smile:

(Pete A) #15

Okay: You are not out to lunch @BeavertonGarry here 'tis, scroll and continue reading:

(Garry (Canada)) #16

Thanks Pete. Great Info. Thanks.
Cheers,
Garry.

(Diane) #17

My understanding is that protein requirement levels can vary greatly depending upon the individual, from 0.8 to 1.5 grams per kg of lean body mass. It can vary based on your activity (from sedentary to athletic) and also based on your insulin resistance. So, the more insulin resistant you are, you’d want to stay in the low end of that range. If you’re insulin sensitive, you should have more flexibility within this window and could probably eat more protein without compromising the benefits of eating ketogenically.

Also, Cronometer can be tricky. Are the carbs you’re seeing net or total? You can set the app to track either way (although grams of erythritol still get included either way and can mess with my tracking). If your 49 grams of carbs were total carbs, that might be within your tolerance. Many people count net carbs and keep them under 20 grams per day. Some people are extra sensitive to carbs and find that tracking total carbs helps them to better successfully keep within ketosis.

Hope this helps, good luck!

(Jeff) #18

That site you (Pete) referenced says to use about .7 (± depending on activity level) time your POUNDS.
The other site I found clearly says .6-.8 times KG.

That is a HYUUUUUGE disparity by more than double since 1 kg = 2.2 LBS

I guess this question is nowhere near settled, even among popular low carb doctors & authors.

(Pete A) #19

As in most things, the variables are your own and one needs to find a range that works for them. I didn’t think about protein one bit for months and months and have done fine, so that’s good enough for me.

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #20

At the end of the day, the various ketogenic diet experts agree that you keep carbs low, protein moderate and fat to satiety.

I haven’t read Obesity Code. I’m an Eades man for the moment. It’s called protein power. .5-.9g/lbs of lean body mass. That’s how I’ve understood it.

Come here and some folks don’t like the protein. I gather Fung has a very different idea of what moderate protein means than either of the Eades.

I wouldn’t go below .5g/kg LBM and I wouldn’t go above 2.4g/lbs of LBM (the maximum useful amount for an athletic person engaged in serious training).