Hello. I found this forum thanks to the 2ketodudes podcast. Ive done 24 and 36 hour fasts before, but I’m going to try my first multi day fast soon, and I have a question.
I plan to drink mostly water, but I like to splurge with a diet Coke or sugar free Kool aid made with ezsweetz here and there. Am I hamstringing myself by doing this? I’ve been keto for quite some time, and as far as I can tell these sweeteners do not impact my progress, but when it comes to a long fast I’m unsure.
Not sure about the artificial sweet drinks, but you need to consider your electrolytes, or it will definitely sabotage your fast
Both of those probably ruin your gut (as do just about all artificial things) .
Then, whatever goes through your gut does not work as well as it is supposed to (i.e. why buy grass fed beef if you add diet coke?).
I was a diet coke fan a while back but became educated. Much better to fool around with good coffee and green tea for your caffeine.
I do think you are hamstringing yourself - even just with keto.
Best to try n=1 and see for yourself.
On coffee - try Chemex, thick paper filter - 15 to 20 grams ground at home for 2 awesomely tasty mugs - stay away from Starbucks, Peet’s etc. with crazy high caffeine levels from their outlets.
I’ve puttered around with the benefits of extended fasts. One of the benefits is that you should get autophagy happening (the body ‘cleaning up’ and reusing or excreting unnecessary or damaged bits and pieces.) It seems unclear whether this process is stopped when any nutrition or chemical like caffeine or artificial sweetener enters the body, or if it’s only certain things that trigger the halt.
However, there are lots of other benefits to fasting so even if that did happen, it’s not like it was all for nothing.
ETA: FWIW, my biggest issue with water only fasting is boredom. I’m not feeling hungry while doing a 40 hour water (and salt) only fast but I just can’t seem to get busy with anything productive, it all seems to contain a food component. (as in, think I’ll go to the movies and realizing that this activity is enticing because it’s all about food, or I think I’ll sit here all afternoon talking about ketosis, which is also all about food …).
After developing my ‘fasting muscle’ with my initial forays into fasting, I also find that the fasting thing is 90% mental. Boredom - huge!! Now I’ve developed a pattern where I fast when on work travel (3days) and feast at home. It’s incredible how my 2 hour drive home is full of thoughts of food, while during the three days at work - don’t get tempted at all.
Develop a fasting routine that fits your life. And it gets and stays easy…
Oh yeah - I drink plenty diet coke and diet Pepsi. Doesn’t affect me - YMMV
Tom
What is your goal for the long fast? Just weight loss, improved IR, autophagy, or something else?
How long do you plan or fast for?
Cheers
Alec
Hi Alec. My primary goal is weight loss. I have been on keto for a little over 5 years and I have dropped from 606 lbs to 384 lbs, but I am in the midst of a lengthy plateau (almost 4 months now) that I can’t seem to break.
I’m aiming for 5 days, but possibly more depending how I’m feeling.
I’m just concerned that I’m shooting myself in the foot with the artificially sweetened drinks. I did a self experiment a couple years ago where I gave up the drinks and only drank water for 30 days along with my ketogenic meal plan, but the rate of my weight loss and my blood glucose and ketone tests were not impacted at the time. So I concluded that it was ok for me to consume the diet drinks.
I think this plateau is messing with my head, and causing me to question it again. So I’m hoping to bust through this plateau and I also like to challenge myself.
Tom
This is really interesting. At your weight and from where you’ve come, you should be able to move off your plateau. We need to find the issue.
Could you send us what you eat regularly? Do you feel you are undereating or overeating? Are you hungry? You are obviously a VERY experienced ketoer, but I would love to try to help you off your plateau.
I am an experienced faster, and if I can help I would like to.
Cheers
Alec
By the way, absolutely fantastic weight loss so far. You have done so well… congratulations! You will beat this!
Thanks Alec. I’m not giving up or anything. Just close to a smaller shirt size and getting antsy lol. I was prediabetic and had high blood pressure before keto, but that’s all gone now. Even if I never lost another pound I wouldn’t stop keto.
Lately I’ve been eating one meal a day. I keep things simple so it’s usually a salad with chicken or beef. I add bacon, a whole avocado, cucumber, shredded cheese, and full fat ranch or blue cheese dressing, and a some Sriracha for some heat. It’s a pretty big salad I would estimate 1500-2000 calories.
I usually don’t snack very much. If I do it would be some thing like slice of cheese with summer sausage/salami. Or a hard-boiled egg with mayo and a couple drops of Sriracha. Or a small handful of blue diamond smokehouse almonds.
Tom
Have you tried eating a bit more for a while? If you have been on that calorie level for a long time, you may have decreased your BMR to that level. To rev things up a bit, you might try upping your cals for a few weeks to see if that shakes things loose?
How often do you fast at the moment Ie the 24/36hr fasts? 1 or 2 days per week?
Re your original question, my personal preference would be to drop the diet cokes. But this is totally personal preference, I have no science which says this is the right thing to do. Dr Jason Fung (fasting guru) and others seem to really dislike sweeteners for their potential insulin raising effects. I think the insulin raising can be very different person to person, so there are no hard rules on this.
Cheers
Alec
Why don’t you try a 5 day fast without the diet cokes and see if that works? I think it is well worth the try.
Cheers
A
That’s what I’ll do. Just water for 5 days. I’ll report back with some results. Thanks for your help!
With artificial sweeteners it seems to be an N=1 situation. I fast, and probably have 4-6 Diet Coke/Pepsi daily. Would it be different if I did water and salt only? I dunno. Never done it - maybe I’ll try it sometime and report back. I like the way they taste and have seen no compelling reason to stop.
My end to drinking diet coke did not really come with a compelling reason but, I am sure glad I stopped because compelling reasons are being discovered now.
https://chriskresser.com/how-artificial-sweeteners-wreak-havoc-on-your-gut/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2017/04/27/why-is-diet-soda-so-bad-for-your-brain/#100a0fc85fad
I got totally hooked on diet coke after joining a company that made it available for free – always just a few steps away in the kitchen. It was great, a small hit of caffeine any time – nice and cold. Then after a big boom bust cycle in our industry – lots of freebies went away – including the diet coke. So, I just started buying it – month after month, year after year. Always at least a full 12-pack in my trunk – always some in the fridge and always some at my desk. Then, one day I just snapped. I had been going to Safeway to pick up more diet coke – the sale was tremendous. I cannot remember how low it was but, it was a steal. But, the sale had ended the previous day. I bought more anyway, because I was there and didn’t want to waste the trip (diet coke was the only thing I had planned on buying). I went out to the car, opened the trunk and put more 12-packs of diet coke on top of several that were already there. That was when I snapped – I took out the receipt and looked at the price. It was high because the sale was off and higher because of the CRV tax and I had used my time for this and I drove just for this and what is this? It is supposed to be nothing (no calories). I decided to move to strictly water, coffee and tea – no energy drinks or artificial anything – basically considering them all a waste of money and time. I cannot say I suddenly felt better in terms of my n=1 switch but, from a psychological point of view, I rest easier knowing I will not have to worry about reading an article about some previously found safe ingredient in those types of products – isn’t anymore. (This happened to me before – I am pretty sure I had a lot of Tab soda when it still had cyclamate – before the FDA banned it. I was only 5 or 6 years old and only allowed a half a can a day, but my mother kept lots around for her and didn’t notice when I took more.)
Just a quick update. I’m 74 hours into my 5 day fast. Day 1 and 2 were rough, but I made it. Ive had one can of diet Coke otherwise just water.
I’m down 11 lbs and I’m happy to say I’ve crushed this plateau finally. Going strong until Saturday afternoon where I plan to break the fast.
Interesting bit of info is that I’ve been testing my ketones twice a day and it’s .2 or .3 every time. I’ve never had high ketone readings, usually around .6-.8. so I’m a bit puzzled by the low readings during this fast. But I feel like I’m in nutritional ketosis. Mental clarity is high. And energy has increased in the 3rd day.
Tom
Sounds great, how did you end up? re your ketones, it is clear to me that you were simply burning them off. Don’t forget any measurement of ketones is measuring what you spill because you didn’t use them.
Cheers
Alec
It went well. I ended up with a net loss of 12 lbs. I was very excited for that. I think I’ll start doing a multi day fast every couple months from now on. My stomach was feeling weird towards the end of the 5 days, and for about a day after I broke the fast. Other than that I felt pretty good.
