Question about Fasting Cycles and how best to manage them (4 days on, 3 days off)

#1

Hello Everyone,

I found this forum and have been lurking around for a bit and figured I would post my first question. I am currently doing a Keto friendly diet, (70/25/5) or doing the best that I can at it anyway. I love Dr. Fung, and have read his book “The Obesity Code” and I am a member of DietDoctor. Plus I read a couple of other sites that seems to have great information. I have also read the short book “Eat Stop Eat” by Brad Pilon.

I started my progress at 211 pounds, I am a 51 year old male, 5’8". Needless to say, 211 for me was way beyond where I should be. My job is almost 100% sitting with zero chance of exercise during the course of a shift. So I was not exercising either.

My other issue is that I love candy. Not just mildly mind you, but a full blown love affaire. My wife and kids feed my habit by bringing home my favorite sweets for me all the time. It was not uncommon for me to eat an entire box of lemonheads or nerds in one night. Ditto for ice cream!

So anyway, I went to get a physical and my wonderful doctor told me something I never thought I would hear: “If you don’t do something about your blood pressure, I am going to have to think about putting you on meds!” I was shocked - I don’t know why but I was. I had spent years abusing my body and now I had high blood pressure.

So I made a decision to change what I put into my mouth and what I did with my spare time. I immediately (as in the next day) cut out 100% of all process foods. No candy, no fast food, no cranberry juice that I loved so much, no ice cream, no pasta… nothing with any added sugar…I quit it cold turkey. No sugar, extremely limited carbs, no processed foods, no fast foods.

After adjusting to this diet for a few weeks, I then started a three-week water fast. Nothing but water and a multivitamin. My family was immensely helpful and I made it through with flying colors. I lost over 25 pounds and three waste sizes.

To help monitor my blood progress, I purchased a blood glucose/ketone meter and tested my blood every three or four days while fasting. I was always between 5 and 6, almost always on the higher range. I very carefully monitored my body and my family very carefully monitored me for signs of attitude changes, etc. We got two more cats during that time so I think I was doing ok!

Once I made the decision to break the fast, I did so with bone broths for a couple of days then added back in some soups and then salads and then eventually fish (tuna and salmon) and finally beef. Then I went on a keto friendly diet using myfitnesspal to track everything for me attempting to stay on the 70/25/5 macro plan. Sometime I did well, other times I wasn’t even close, but I never really went over my carbs.

My blood ketone levels now range between 1.5 and 2.2 pretty much every time I test (which is daily at 4 PM right now).

The other thing that I do now is exercise seven-days-per-week. I go to the gym three days per week for resistance training (not body building, just general whole body resistance weight training). On the days I am not in the gym I walk 3 miles per night and on Friday’s, Saturday & Sunday I also swim with my family for about an hour or so after our 3 mile walks.

I have lost now a total of almost 37 pounds. However, the best weight for me ever was around 145 to 150. Granted I was in the Marine Corps at the time, but I absolutely felt my best at those weights. It wasn’t until my mid-thirties that I left 150 behind and slowly over the year I got heaver and heaver until I hit the 211 mark, my heaviest weight ever in my life.

So I have another 25 to 30 pounds to go and I am thinking of adding fasting into my diet, but for me it is just much easier to go “cold turkey” then Day on/Day off, or 5:2, etc…

So my question to everyone here is would there be any harm (like lowered resting metabolic rate, etc) with doing a four day fast each week followed by three eating days?

So I would do a water only fast starting Sunday night at 8PM, then on Thursday around 8PM I would have some soup/broth and then eat normally the rest of the weekend (lots of salads, low GI veggies, very low carbs <20g/day) but roughly 2000 to 2200 calories a day, and do this until Sunday night at 8PM. My goal would be to do this until I hit my target weight and then use a standard Keto diet and daily exercise plan to manage my weight from there.

I have read a lot and listened to ever one of Dr. Jung’s fasting videos, bit nothing really seems to address what I am looking to try, basically a modified IF kind of diet for a few months until I get rid of the remaining 25 to 30 pounds.

Sorry for being so long winded, and I appreciate your input.

Thank You

(Carol) #2

I am not the best person to answer your question because I am not scientific or medical or anything close to that. I have been eating keto and fasting for almost a year and I read a lot. We are all an experiment as far as I can tell and what works for some may not work for others. But, the one thing I believe is not setting a pattern your body will recognize. I’m a vintage woman and have lost from 221lb to 135lbs in a year without any trouble. As a matter of fact, never felt better. :slight_smile:

I do time restricted eating (TRE) and fast a fair amount but the times of the week/month and length varies. I don’t follow daily macros (except for keeping the carbs <20) and calorie cycle. My body never knows what’s coming. I’m sure other members will chime in with more helpful information. .

And welcome to the forum!

#3

Carol-

Thank you for the information, I also don’t really watch my calories very closely except to the extent that I REALLY watch my carbs. I really would like to fast more but don’t want to set myself up for failure. I like the idea of keeping the body wondering what may be coming next!

(Susan) #4

Welcome to the forum @MD500-Pilot

You seem to have done all your Keto homework very well, and are using good resources. You seem to know what your body needs and doesn’t need, and you have the intestinal fortitude to stay on track, so this is all very positive and will certainly aid in your continuing successful Keto journey!

Congrats on your progress so far and the weight that you have already lost. I have been doing a Thursday-Sunday and intend to keep doing that for a long time (unless family situations shorten my time). I have much more weight to lose then you do. I think it is a great idea if you can do a 72 hour fast once a week, and then eat TMAD (two meals a day, lunch and supper) with a window of 18/6 or 20/4 the other days. I personally am trying to schedule myself for this. Since you are asking for input on this specifically, I am sharing what I am doing. Not trying to preach at you to do this at all!

I think your plan is great though, and I wish you success doing it! This should give you the benefits of Autophagy, which is a wonderful thing! I think that 72 hours of fasting a week is usually sufficient, and longer fasts of 5 days or so if you want later on, I want to do one of these in the future to see if there is any difference. Dr. Jason Fung said that he thinks 72 hours is good though; and he is the expert (not me!!) so I think personally it is probably sufficient for many people.

Good luck in your journey and you can make a post on the Accountability section if you like for all of us to follow your progress and cheer you on!

(Carl Keller) #5

Hello MD500_Pilot.

What you’re really asking is ‘when does our body perceive starvation?’ and the answer to that varies from person to person. I’m not an expert, but from my experience, I can say doing 3-48 hour fasts and 1-72 hour fast inside of month didn’t affect my RMR. I only did this for a month though.

I believe if you watch for and heed the warning signs, you should be fine. As Jason Fung likes to say: “If you start to feel unwell at any time, break the fast”. That means if your extremeties start feeling constantly cold, your hunger is ravenous and/or your energy levels are dropping, then you are probably fasting too much.

But just remember… it didn’t take you months to go from 150 to 211. It took you nearly 25 years and you may or may not reach your goal in record time but what you are doing right now seems to be working very well. I wouldn’t put too much pressure on myself to try even more fasting if I were having the success you are right now.

#6

I recall Jason and Megan saying something along the lines of ‘you have to feast AT LEAST as long as you fast’ (and you should seriously feast when you do eat). I suggest you turn your ratios around - three days of fasting and four days of feasting (that’s more in line with the usual IDM recommendation).

#7

Everyone - Thank you so much for all this great information.

My biggest concern is all of the reading that I have done about causing my resting metabolic rate to drop and causing problems with weight/fat loss.

Personally I have determined that I can do a four day fast pretty easily and my job lends itself well to being able to do this type of fasting. For me this is far better than day on, day off all week long. My biggest concern is if this type of fasting long term would lower my RMR causing more harm than good.

I know my body well and would never push a fast too long, and my family is fantastic and more than willing to point out attitude changes which also helps out, but how do I really measure RMR and how do I really know if I am causing it to drop as in a calorie restricted diet.

(Carol) #8

You may want to listen to some of Dr. Fung’s podcasts. Keto has many benefits but it hasn’t improved my memory. But I have a vague recollection that he might have said your BMR starts to drop after 3 days of fasting. How much I don’t know. I don’t feast every day between fasts but I do cycle high, medium and low calorie days to balance calories (this is a contentious subject) and hopefully keep my metabolism pumped up. We can only do what works for us and from what I read, it is certainly different for everyone.

Good luck with your fasting!

(Susan) #9

Carol is so right! All our bodies are different, and what works for one person, may or may not work for another. Keto is very versatile, and you just have to try different things, to see what works best for you on your Keto journey =).

(Bob M) #10

I find their recommendations to be all over the map. For instance, they recommend 3x42 hour fasts per week. That’s 126 hours, and there are 168 hours in a week, which means you’re fasting 75 % of the time. Even 3x36 is 108 hours, or 64% of the time.

I don’t make it anywhere near those, so I’m lucky to do one 36 hour fast and 2 22 hour fasts (OMAD) per week.