PSMF eating


(Dani) #1

I’ve been talking to a fellow Ketonian who told me about the PSMF way of eating.

If I’m right in thinking this is just a standard “gym diet” that the body builders use to cut before a show.

Does anyone have thoughts on this woe good or bad?

(Bob M) #2

It’s a reduce calorie fast that’s not a fast. As such, I personally think it’s somewhat useless (why not just fast?). If you have time, you could start here with Ted Naiman telling Dr. John Limansky and Jimmy Moore about his version of PSMF:

Continue with the next 5 or so episodes, where they discuss their results (they HATED it), discuss other perspectives (some like it, some dislike it).

(Dani) #3

Thanks. That’s really useful, I’ll check it out.

(Simon Saunders) #4

I dont like how high the protein was in Ted’s version, i use a modified one I learnt back in the year 2000, and works really well for weight loss, currently have my wife on a modified version for herself, the nice thing it is not forever.

People call it PSMF which basically mean protein is high enough to spare lean mass and fats are kept high enough not to induce gallstones, and carbs can be slightly higher as observed by stephen phinney when caloric intake was around the 800 cal mark.

Weight loss works out to be the same stats as complete fasting with zero food, and its much easier to sustain as you can go much longer compared to zero food fasting.

On my facebook ketoisland page I am documenting my PSMF stint this month, your welcome to watch my weight loss progress, I have been optimising this now for 18 years, im so glad everything is coming together as keto/LCHF is soooo easy to maintain weight I love it :slight_smile:

(Dani) #5

Thanks so much for the reply!

Unfortunately I don’t use Facebook, do you have an Instagram account?

I love training and I love having a muscular physique. I found fasting very therapeutic but I got scared of protein when I ate, as I was told to keep it low to loose weight (around 60g per day) I ended up loosing definition and faith in fasting.

I’m very new to this type of fasting and there is very little info out there. I’ve been given a book by Lyle McDonald which I’m going to check out today. Can you suggest any other good sources?


Hey Dani. I’ve been doing PSMF for around 4 weeks now. Ask any questions. Lost a lot of weight already, and not as hard as people think. edit: It is really important to get the right protein on the diet. Amazingly hard to eat enough protein while keeping fat and carbs low. Quite a tricky balance. Deffo use a calculator for this, or read Lyle’s book. Lots of calcs out there, I use this one

Let me know how it goes.

(Heather Meyer) #7

Whats a re-feed? According to the calculator it says Lyle Mc Donald recommends 2-3 refeeds at the end… but whats the end he is referring to? the end of the week? month?

(Windmill Tilter) #8

I did a PSMF last year. I lost a good amount of weight in the first few weeks, and subsequent weeks became harder and the fat loss rate declined as my metabolism crashed. It’s just pure calorie restriction that will lower your RMR (resting metabolic rate) like ordinary CICO. It’s a great short term tool, but it’s a dead end if you have a lot weight to lose over the long term. Once you’ve lowered your metabolism, the only way to get it back up is to eat calories at a surplus, which means fat regain. It’s basically CICO on steroids.

The alternative is extended fasting. It’s a good option if your bodyfat is high enough. Fasting does not crash your RMR. There are lots of folks on here who have lost 70-100lbs water fasting cyclically (3 days feasting: 3 days fasting, repeat). The amazing thing is that everyone of them that I’ve seen that has had a follow up RMR (Resting Metabolic Rate) test has had an RMR that was significantly above average for their height/weight/age. In other words, there is a “metabolic ratcheting” effect where you eat 3000kcal/day for 3 days (feasting) and the keep it there with a 3 day fast. Eventually, even though you are restricting your calories by 50% on a weekly basis, your metabolism is getting supercharged. These folks have the metabolic rates of olympians and the fat is dropping like crazy as you might expect. This seems like a better approach. I just bought an indirect calorimeter so I can track my RMR each day while I do 3 Feast:3 Fast cycles for the next 50lbs. I’ll post the data if anyone is interested.

I started about 5 weeks ago and I’ve dropped 30lbs (264 to 234). I do the Body by Science workout from Dr. Doug McDuff once every 6 days. Every single one of my lifts has increased and I have visibly gained muscle. It’s not for everybody, but once you’re “fast adapted”, it works incredibly well. Check out Fung’s The Obesity Code to understand why it works. This is the chart of metabolism increasing during the first 4 days of a fast (REE means Resting Energy Expenditure, another term for Resting Metabolic Rate). The magic happens because you lose 2lbs of fat in 3 days but your metabolism goes up!

(Bunny) #9

That is really fascinating, never seen this until now!

(Heather Meyer) #10

Very interesting. To me it definitly doesnt look sustainable to PMSF. But Keto yes.

(Windmill Tilter) #11

It’s similar with other fasting studies. Take a look at this. This study takes the water fast out to 18 days. The RMR barely budges.

It’s from this study on fasting, which is a gold mine.