Protein myths

(mole person) #17

Ack…that’s under 2 grams of protein!

I actually don’t usually have much difficulty sticking to my protein macro. Last night I had two chicken thighs which came in at 46 grams. Dead on. I did have some Camembert afterwards which pushed me over but I was stuffing myself (really need to drop dairy again, I suck at self control :sleepy:). If it hadn’t been on the table I wouldn’t have thought of touching it.

I also find that when I DO really overdo it I get pretty ill. The last two times I’ve got to 90g I woke up in the night horribly nauseated. Clearly my body is screaming that I’m eating way too much protein.

#18

42g is enough to maintain ur muscle mass. Only ur body knows the accurate ammount how much calories u need, calculators just give rough estimate. Eat when ur hungry and stop when u hit satiety, not more than that. Dont know ur height but id guess ur already in normal weight range so any weight loss will be harder than usual.

(Robert C) #19

I don’t have nausea but I definitely overheat if I have too much protein near bedtime.
I guess, due to the “thermic effect” of protein being high (per the link below).
I have found - while trying to nail down sleep hygiene - that skipping lunch and moving dinner up to mid-afternoon (when I can) really helps with sleep.

You might find the same, that overdoing protein but not then falling asleep might avoid the nausea.

(mole person) #20

I’m sure eating earlier would help. The weird thing is that the nausea is helped by salt. Two nights ago I woke with awful bloating, stomach pain, and nausea so bad that I was sure I was going to vomit. I sipped some salt water and after a few sips I began to feel better, by the time the cup was empty I was fine again. Also, it felt like my digestion had stopped and the salt water started it up again. I’m not entirely sure what’s going on.

(Anita Huska) #21

I going with 52 grams and if I go over 2 no more than 5 I not going to panic I have a hard time as I said before because I like meat, cheese, so more oils need stuff that has no protein, not even 1 gram and more fats I consume a fair amount of coconut oil olive oil on those days, when I can’t get enough, I keep the nuts down but I love bacon puffs my weakness!

(DougH) #22

There are researchers like Bikman who would disagree that protein is insulogenic in the context of a low carb diet. Have you seen his talk about glucagon insulin and protein?

Your mileage may vary but I don’t fear protein.

I think one of the biggest risks to longevity is sarcopenia. Protein is as vital in my book as is BG and insulin control. Why live longer if my later years are limited by being frail?

On phone but I’ll post some links later.

Protein Myths: Continued
Protein Myths: Continued
(mole person) #23

I have seen Bikman’s talk, but I think people make inferences that go well beyond the data that he presented. I’m on a phone myself right now and hate writing longer posts on it so I’ll revisit this later or tomorrow.

(Robert C) #24

I think protein is a little rock (very little rock) in terms of sarcopenia.

Strength training is the very big rock.

  1. Eat all the protein you want - don’t train - hello sarcopenia.
  2. Eat what is considered moderate or low protein - train well - goodbye sarcopenia.
  3. Eat all the protein you want - train well - goodbye sarcopenia.

2 and 3 are about the same - most of the outcome is determined by “train well”.

(Anita Huska) #25

Don’t really know what you talking about to complex for me!

(DougH) #26

We are discussing two related themes, first whether higher protein intake negatively impacts ketosis, and second is whether there is a long term benefit to higher protein intake through maintaining lean muscle mass. Sarcopenia is the generalized loss of lean muscle mass as part of the aging process, it has a strong impact on quality of life in the elderly. Think of older people that are frail and lack strength and mobility, that is sarcopenia.

Protein can be insulogenic, it can increase insulin, so it could negatively impact ketosis. I think some of the concern about protein hearkens back to early keto beliefs that protein consumption had a direct result on gluconeogenesis, the conversion of protein into glucose. I have seen lots of advice that protein should be consumed sparingly. Meanwhile I believe it is demand driven, that body uses gluconeogenesis on a more limited basis to supply glucose to cells that can’t metabolize ketones.

It starts getting more complicated from there.:sweat_smile:

(DougH) #27

Started to go into the rabbit hole that is pubmed. Oh no.

An Update on Protein, Leucine, Omega-3 Fatty Acids, and Vitamin D in the Prevention and Treatment of Sarcopenia and Functional Decline

(mole person) #28

That was an excellent description. I’ll post some of my thoughts tomorrow. I wonder if we should start a new thread though as this may be a hijacking of Anita’s.

(DougH) #29

That would be a good idea.

This link may share some on my opinions on protein consumption, and will bring us back on topic for Anita’s original question.

Muscle Growth Science, mTOR & Leucine w/ Gabrielle Lyon, DO

(Anita Huska) #30

Well I tried higher amounts of protein, not working I just want to lose a small amount, don’t want to gain muscle its the fat that I do have I need to lose, so many are heavy and losing so fast, I am not losing like that, like I said, can’t do the amount of exercise, because of health issues. I stick to 52 grams of protein about 26 grams per meal for the two meals, I am doing, mixing them up now twice a week by having breakfast fasting till dinner. I got the macros set and the fat is at 73 percent, net carbs at 6 percent I been doing allot of research on keto and it seems that most say 52 to 54 for protein which was my biggest worry. I thinking it must go by calories also, used to eat a lot less when I was trying to lose on other diets! The more I read the more I learn that calories are okay, but not less than 1200 to lose and stay healthy. I try t for a couple of weeks and see, hoping it works, normally I just fast the same from 7 pm to 1200 or later, then eat again between 6 to 7 finish before 8 pm, I do find though I get hungry at night sometimes even if i fill up on dinner so not sure what I can do about that, When I mentioned about changing it up just so my body doesn’t get too used to one way and stop totally losing although its not losing fast as I mentioned in other replys, If anyone has some even more ideas I open to try without going down to one meal feel free to reply,.

(mole person) #32

@Anita_Huska You’ve been on keto for 2 months so you are fat adapted. That means you don’t have to eat all the fat in your fat macro. Just add enough at your meals to reach satiety. The way keto works is as your appetite becomes supressed you can eat less fat and have your body consume it’s energy from your body instead. You say you’re hungry at dinner though so I wouldn’t eat less at that meal at this point.

Do you track? Can you give a sample of a day’s food with the macro and calorie break down?

(mole person) #33

I just clicked on the last video link you posted. I’m going to watch it with my morning coffee. It’s right on topic of my current interests. Thanks!

(Robert C) #34

This study is nutrition-only focused (if I was cynical I would think maybe to support a product or supplement - studies about things that cannot be monetized are rarely funded):

  • “As a modifiable risk factor, nutrition is a potential target to improve or prevent the loss of physical function in older adults”
  • “This narrative review aims to examine the recent observational and interventional evidence on the associations and the role of these nutrients in the muscle mass, strength, mobility, and physical function…”

Unfortunately, it is focusing on fixing the symptom (reduced muscle in the elderly) instead of telling anyone how to avoid that situation.
It is like telling someone that just drove off of a cliff that their best bet for survival is to call their friends and have lots of mattresses placed where they are going to land.

Building muscle and balance through strength training and functional exercises BEFORE you are using a cane, avoiding outside activities, having to use a wheelchair or being placed in an “old folks” home is key.

Protein Myths: Continued
(Anita Huska) #35

I use carb manager imcan try to send a report, but my not work if not my macros i can give. i copied report into the e mail i get messages from in here but not sure if you will get it, Here is my macros for a typical day. 6% net carbs, = 18 grams of net but dont use all very often, 16% protein = 52 to 55 grams try not to go over, 93 grams fat out of 113 but dont go that high all the time i eat till i full when i said that i still hungry i meant after dinner sometimes a couple of hours later, or when i get up at night a big downfall.

(Anita Huska) #36

The more I read about how much I thinking moderation for protein.

(Anita Huska) #37

I am not in ketosis anymore just to add