Protein Clarification

(Jeremiah ) #37

Hi Keto dude hey I just wanna say that I absolutely love your show and plan to continue learning from it and passing it along to others. Hey just thought I’d toss this out there. I’d like your opinion. I’m a pretty lean guy weighing in at 66 kgs 5’8 and was wondering if that should be my goal to eat the same number of kgs in grams for protein. So if that’s so I’d need 66 grams of protein which seems pretty low and would be less than 20% if I’m gonna stay in the 75% range for fat…Oh yes and if I’m doing some intense cardio or weight training what would you suggest I increase i the protein to? Thank you keto dude🙏 Here’s my macros for today.

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(Richard Morris) #38

If you are particularly lean before a low carbohydrate diet then you may not be insulin resistant, so you could probably get away with more protein than someone your size with type 2 diabetes for example.

Your lean mass will be less than you total weight. Your total weight is 66kg. If your body fat% is 15 then your lean mass will be 56kg, if your body fat is 20% it’ll be 53kgs, if 25% then it’ll be 49.5kg.

The data shows that no-one needs more than 1g/kg (LBM) and only 2 outliers needed that much. So I think you would not be eating too little protein if you were to eat 66g. Let’s say your lean mass is 50kg and you have 16kg of body fat, your minimum I reckon should be 50g/day.

The other question would what is the most you could you eat. The problem is that the minimum you need should be related to your total lean mass + how much of that you are growing. The maximum is related to how much your liver can strip ammonia from amino-acids, can oxidize the remaining hydrocarbon, can turn that ammonia into urea so the kidneys can filter it into urine.

That anthropological paper about shell fish diets set the top at 50% of total calories based on the maximum rate that humans can get oxygen into their livers to oxidize the . According to your data you are eating roughly 2000 kCal so on that evidence your absolute maximum would be 250g. That would be roughly 5g/kg (LBM) for a 50kg person. That is a lot.

But there are other bechmarks we should look at. The following paper sets the limit for how much UREA a normal person can synthesis which is roughly 0.53g of Nitrogen/kg (LBM), which in terms of protein is 3.31g/kg (LBM).

If you have much more than that then you can’t turn ammonia into urea fast enough and ammonia will build up leading to ammonium intoxication. So for you the maximum would be 50kg (LBM) x 3.3g/kg (LBM) = 165g

But as Dr Phinney has written (pp60 Art and Science of low carbohydrate living), “No one has ever shown that more than 1.5g/kg (LBM) of protein improves human protein synthesis” so if you are trying to build lean mass then more than 100g/day (for a person with 50 kg of lean mass) probably wouldn’t make any difference.

I would say if your lean mass is 50kgs that your minimum should be around 50g/day and your absolute maximum should be 165g/day, and the point where you get the most benefit is probably around 100g/day. If you are diabetic you might want to aim for the bottom of that range.

Hope that helps.

Newbie! trying not to tie myself in knots about getting keto perfect
(Jeremiah ) #39

That helps me a ton keto dude! God bless you for taking the time out to explain that. I’m just learning how to maneuver around this forum so this meant allot to me! Have you ever tried those urine strips to test the protein content and if so do you have any tips on that subject? I just wanna see my actual results from day to day since all of our metabolisms fluctuate and physical activity changes. I just hope that I can Retrieve the right stats I need in order for me to adjust my diet too ensure the appropriate amounts of protein I need for my next meal. Also just curious but I’ve read and heard that several people subtract half of there protein and slide the other half into their carb category and it’s got me confused like it seems contradictory. Thank you Keto dude! :pray:

(Richard Morris) #40

testing urine for protein is a test for a failing kidney, No I’ve never tried those. I’m not sure they would diagnose too much protein, just not enough kidney.

(Jeremiah ) #41

Ok thank you Keto dude😉 Your insight is very appreciated! Just trying to get a combination of outlooks on this. Have you ever watched any Thomas Delaurs videos on you tube? I think he’s pretty awesome anyway he mentioned that you could test for healthy protein levels with urine strips? I’m just trying to gain lean muscle mass while still on a ketogenic diet too recieve the mental clarity and focus. God bless keto dude!

(Mark Rhodes) #42

Thank you for this reply. I have been strict KETO since April 1. Lost 8.3 fat, gained 7.1 Lean as of June 13th, (next scan September) Lifting weights. I have thought that my protein has been too much but could not get that old BRO science out of my head. My ketones have always been low on BOHB (average .8) and higher on Ketonix (average 35.7) This response gave me the crucial information on how to BETTER structure my nutrition ( as well as my wife’s) and how to use meals to satiety. Because I have listened carefully and read the liner notes, especially for Metabolism & Megan podcasts I know that RMR fluctuates according to input and allocates according to needs, which dictate output. The composition of what I am eating has been too much protein overall.My weight is 206 at 20.4% BF so any given day about 155 lbs LBM or 70. I have eaten regularly 100-150g protein.

I’ll ask the next question and answer it as well. Please correct me if major error: Since I still need to get a daily kcal(when not fasting) of 2200-2500 and I reduce my protein I then use fat as the mechanism to supply the remainder of my energy needs. This becomes more aligned with a balanced keto diet and I then create the Syphius diagram of pushing the rock up the hill.

(Linda Culbreth) #43

Yes -up the fat and have a few more slices of :bacon: !

(Nihar Turumella) #44

Hi,
I have a question I weigh 166 pounds about 18% bodyfat, I work out and lift heavy 5 times a week at least and have been working out for 3 years. My macros for a keto cut are: 170 g fat 185 g protein and 30 g carbs, my maintenance is 2500-2600 cal. Is my protein too high for keto? Should I reduce it?
If yes then to how much?

(Norma Laming) #45

I think there’s perhaps sometimes a confusion between eating protein and eating the food that contains protein. As I recall, meat is 25% protein so it’s worth pointing out to people that if you’re aiming for X grams of protein you need X x4 of meat.

(Kaiden) #46

That was a fascinating difference between me. I bought into the premise of the Keto Hacking MD Podcast that there was a 2D spectrum with people like Jimmy Moore on one end and John Limansky on the other. When I did their High Protein Hack, it kicked me out of ketosis. I was able to go back into ketosis in about a day of high fat, but it moved me from 1.5 mmol to 0.0 in two days. And while they had blood sugar drops after protein rich meals, my blood sugar went up, and fasting blood sugar went WAY up.

Some people don’t respond well to high protein. I only tried it because the FDA said that most people can’t overdo protein, and I believed them, as they represented what I considered to be expert science codified into law. Oops.