Newbie! trying not to tie myself in knots about getting keto perfect

(Ivy) #43

There is no conclusion as to whether it is possible for me to get fat adapted?

Or is it sill possible for me, even though I had an accident cheat meal ?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #44

This question has actually been answered. To repeat, as a newbie you have delayed your progress by a day or two. Fat adaptation takes, generally speaking, six to eight weeks, so in the scheme of things, a day of accidental carb intake is not a problem.

(Ivy) #45

Ok. It was confusion about someone that had mentioned in a message to me. I’ll be more careful next time

(Jane) #46

Is that limit one meal? In a 12-hr period? 24 hrs?

(Jane) #47

The reason I ask is for me that would be a little over 2 lbs of ribeye steak (34 oz) or 163 g protein.

I certainly could not eat that much meat in one meal. Not even sure in a day, although I thought carnivores routinely ate 2 lbs of meat a day.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #48

I went back to one of Richard’s posts on the topic, and the figure appears to be 3.2 g/kg LBM/day. Given the range of individual variability, I’d say that if you smell of ammonia at any point, even an intake lower than that, you need to cut back on the protein. Ammonia toxicity is not fun and can be fatal.

That said, people’s nitrogen needs vary considerably, and it is possible that the efficiency of their uric acid pathway might vary considerably as well. Still, ammonia toxicity is not fun and can be fatal.

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/how-protein-macro/22109/35

(Ivy) #49

Is that what you are saying I did with the cheat meal? And another cheat meal, if i ever did one?

(Ivy) #50

24 hours

(Ivy) #51

Why doesn’t the definition of keto change, then? moderate protein to something else?

#52

@PaulL What’s the carb limit for those who are physically active?

I know for myself. My carb limit is higher than 20G/day on OMAD and I remember reading a paper posted by @amwassil that anything over 100 grams is definitely not ketoic.

Maybe her carb limit is higher? 40 grams a day?

I believe it’s better for her to be consistent with her carb intake until she’s fully adapted than drop her carbs too low and then she instinctively eats a cheat meal.

(Ivy) #53

Protein increases hunger. That’s sad its not even in the forum’s defined aspects of keto–and unfortunate for to those just starting out.

I know that much.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #54

A lot of folks here will disagree with you. Maybe it increases your hunger. Then again, maybe your hunger is driven by too little protein and your body wants to keep eating until it gets enough. :flushed:

Protein causing hunger is not a defining aspect of keto. You are mistaken to think it is.

(Ivy) #55

You’re actually right – there’s a study that it is so in males. I just looked it up. Maybe I thought I was a dude for the day.

(Ivy) #56

But further on this topic:

Blais, A., Chaumontet, C., Azzout-Marniche, D., Piedcoq, J., Fromentin, G., Gaudichon, C., … & Even, P. C. (2018). Low-protein diet-induced hyperphagia and adiposity are modulated through interactions involving thermoregulation, motor activity, and protein quality in mice. American Journal of Physiology-Endocrinology and Metabolism, 314(2), E139-E151.

In mice, too. “possibly humans” they state.
Another stufy “HP breakfast decreased postprandial ghrelin concentrations”
My bad.

(Ivy) #57

My ketones are back 3 days later okie dokie

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #58

I’m not sure what you are asking, here. The Dudes’ definition of moderate protein is 1.0-1.5 g/kg LBM/day, which at maximum is about half the amount that will cause ammonia toxicity. Why would the definition of keto need to change?

An individual’s carb limit depends on their insulin response to the carbohydrate in their diet. Glucose (which is what carbs are made of) in quantity in the blood stream is dangerous, hence the active insulin response to drive it into muscle to be metabolised and adipose tissue to be stored as fatty acids. As insulin-resistance increases, it takes more and more insulin to achieve the same effect. So one person’s insulin response to a given amount of carbohydrate might knock that person out of ketosis, while another person’s insulin response might be low enough to allow that second person to remain in ketosis. We recommend sticking to the limit of 20 g carbohydrate/day until fat adaptation is achieved, at which point one can experiment a bit to see whether one’s body might tolerate a bit more carbohydrate without inhibiting ketosis.

I would like to see some data to back up that assertion, since it is contrary to the experience of virtually everyone on these forums.

(Ivy) #59

It was a mistake I posted as its only in males

(Ivy) #60

I learned that protein doesnt matter unkess ammonia toxicity – that still means more than answer from keto calcultor – If keto calculator is wrong, then it should be fixed to include abovementioned.
then the definition of keto WoE

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #61

To fix the keto calculator, you would have to talk to the folks who run that Web site.

(Ivy) #62

What about the forum’s about section for keto saying moderate protein? Coldnt that specofy further whats stated about protein here? -wouldve helped me as a keto beginner