Potassium can you truly get enough from food

(Diana) #1

So basic question. I’m a purist. I like to truly get nutrients from food vs supplements. Can you truly get enough potassium (I.e 2500 mg let’s just start there) with less than 20 total carbs and still stay in calorie deficit (let’s use example of 1300)? I’m trying to figure out examples of what one would eat to truly be able to accomplish this and at some point either the carbs are exceeded or the total cals. Any ideas. Or is this impossible.

#2

Hi Diana,
I’ve just checked my daily tracker and so far will reach 2783mg of Potassium by dinner time. I use Cronometer and try to use the USDA data but I don’t know how accurate that is.
I don’t go by calories but after dinner it’ll be 1132, 13.2g of net carbs and 17g of fibre.

I use Sea Salt, I’ve no idea what the potassium content is and it’s not factored into the daily figures.

Oops, sorry, I’ve just realised you’re looking at total carbs.

(Allie) #3

I don’t give it any thought at all. Sometimes use Lite-salt to give it a boost in case needed but beyond that, don’t even think about it.

#4

agree, Lite Salt like Mortons contains potassium cholide. a great use for some who are experiencing issues.

---------OP yes we can get enough from food or all humans by now would be dead long ago LOL but in ‘this icky’ food age? hmm… so it boils down to real food. actual food and not processed junk in packages means we can find our source better and maybe need some additive.

Only ADD if ya need it. Low potass. has alot of symptoms and the body WILL show you this for sure. So if no issues, don’t worry on replacing or needing. Of course bloodwork for vits/minerals report can easily tell ya where you truly stand instead of a guess on what ya might need. But then again, some mins. like potass and sodium change very rapidly in the body SO that report ‘that day’ might not be an issue on that day, but the next day, hey ya got an issue :sunny:

Go by your body. Our potass needs are ‘kinda all the same’ for the human body but we are individual as who are we? On real prescribed meds with major illness one is tackling? Very atheltic and using their bodies way more than some couch tater just dieting? and so on so do you on this one.

Don’t worry on something that isn’t effecting you kinda. Eat great. Go by the body and see where ya land.

(Diana) #5

Curious. What did you eat to get to this potassium level?

(Diana) #6

I’m more so curious. Bc I see the ideal potassium level, but reasonably I can’t see how someone could get to that level without a supplement (like lo salt etc ).

#7

well you see the ‘ideal’ potass. recommended for a ‘reasonably healthy adult’ eating ‘a carby menu’ and not on a ketogenic menu.

on ketogenic our bodies will not hold water well. carbs do that in our body. So if we cut carbs, we lessen the water hold in our bodies and water depletion of our bodies can truly upset the potass./mag/sodium etc apple cart fast.

we aren’t ‘that RDA recommended’ person anymore.

Plus what meds is one on?
what life is one dealing with and more will be a wild ride on balancing electrolytes and is one still going thru a longer keto flu than another?
One who can ‘eat times meals’ vs. one on the road and in a hectic lifestyle that means food when eaten will be more sketchy than someone on a controlled daily eating lifestyle?

I know I went wonky big time in the car on a trip. Not hungry at all in the morn when family stopped at fast food joint to eat and I did not get anyting, but like 1-2 hrs later I AM ALL shaky and weirdo and freaky and anxiety like and ‘just so off’ told hubby to hit the next fast food place on the road. I required some naked burgers and RIGHT NOW…and he was like we ain’t hungry and I am like, I am gonna die now in this car if you don’t get me to food LOL

so things can vary so much for us.

When one heals and re-balances hormones and back ‘to a natural body’ state off carby/processed foods and goes whole foods, ‘does the body’ require what the ‘recommended amt’ is for someone not on a ketogenic menu? Nope. Won’t be the same ever and then throw in ‘who you are’ during this transition.

This stuff will never be black and white ever. It is a ton of shades of gray on who were are.

here is a good little ‘my lifestyle carnivore chat’ guy but he kinda says alot in this short little vid. I know you are Keto and eat plants, but this kinda reigns thru all the changes alot of us are making in our eating plans. Just sets well with me on what he says kinda. Just to get some further info.

See this guys experiences were never mine. I came onto ZC dumping all supps. Never did need one again, yet this guy did so??? This is where if you feel ‘off’ or in question then one must ‘do that works for them’ literally but if no issues we can’t 'blanket that potass. of xyz mgs per day is required? Cause it isn’t that way for any of us.

then ya got stuff like this: from the net: So by ingesting too much sodium , you may lower your healthy potassium levels. Sodium and potassium have opposite effects on the blood pressure. Potassium lowers your blood pressure, while sodium raises it.

so it has to boil down to ones own life on salt intake and individual needs. Again, this is just throwing out regular ol’ chat about this stuff and learning who we are and what we require for each of us in our journey.

#8

what I do, maybe thrice a week, in my homemade bone broth.

#9

Hi,
I had 4 scrambled eggs for breakfast.
Lunch was steak with huge salad and avocado.
Dinner is salmon fillet with broccoli.

I’m getting awful calf cramps at 6am so thank you for drawing my attention to potassium!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #10

Firstly, what is the reason for the caloric deficit? A ketogenic diet relies on the body’s hormonal response to the foods eaten, not on cutting calories, to shed excess fat.

If one eats an ad libitum low-carbohydrate, high-fat ketogenic diet, especially of whole foods, one is likely to be getting enough minerals, especially if that diet includes meat. A vegan keto diet is possible, but it is a challenge and will definitely require supplementation. A vegetarian willing to eat eggs and fish may very well not need to supplement.

If you make your own bone broth from the meat bones, be sure to simmer the stock for at least 24 hours, so that the magnesium and potassium in the marrow can leach out into the broth. A cup or two of that every day will make sure you get enough sodium, magnesium, and potassium.

Another thing is to be sure to get enough salt, since having sodium in the proper range makes it much easier to retain calcium, magnesium, and potassium. The mechanisms that regulate them are all inter-linked.

Yet another consideration is that the recommended daily allowances for many nutrients have been developed on a high-carb population, and there are indications in the data that people on a low-carb, high-fat ketogenic diet may actually be able to make better use of minerals and not need to get so much of them in their diet. More research needs to be done, but if carnivores can go for decades on a meat-only diet and remain healthy without supplements, that is an indication that our understanding of what the human body really needs may have been warped by the vast nutritional experiment that is the governmental dietary guidelines.

#11

ohhh I missed that.
:100: you catching that :ok_hand:

#12

We normal people do need a calorie deficit to lose fat - I am not sure 1300 kcal is a good idea for most of us though (some petite people may need that…?). And I agree that we shouldn’t eat forcefully to some target calories though I don’t judge people who want results already and do that, it’s their choice. I go for health and feeling good, first of all so I like to eat to satiation and tweak things if I eat too much all the time.

(Robin) #13

Once I started strict keto and stuck to it… If I tried to reduce calories, I gained weight. Every time.
After years of yo-yo dieting, If I eat too little my body reacts as if I am starving myself… like I used to.

Now… my body can rely on me to keep it fueled, so it runs perfectly.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #14

But the difference is between restricting calories on purpose, and eating the amount of food the body actually wants. It will limit appetite just fine, in most people, though some people don’t trust their appetite. How much the appetite will limit itself depends on how much excess fat there is to shed.

My weight has remained constant for four years now, and I don’t measure my caloric intake; I simply eat when hungry and don’t eat when not hungry. This works out to two satisfying meals, most days, but sometimes is more and sometimes is less.

(Diana) #15

Interesting that the bone broth provides such high amounts. Calorie deficit is for weight loss and I don’t trust my appetite…so I monitor calories. But my question was more curiosity based and based on the recommended amounts I’ve seen stated for individuals on a keto diet and levels of potassium. I just don’t see how one can get the levels while still being under 20 total carbs. Your calories would surely add up if getting from meat sources or you’d have to drink bone broth daily, unless you do something like keto-ade or similar.

I don’t feel I’m deficient in potassium at all, I have no symptoms… more curious as to why such a high level is recommended and how we would expect a person to achieve this range with real food vs supplements. But as you pointed out the carnivore folk do just fine without any supplements…

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #16

The biology underlying a ketogenic diet is that elevated insulin blocks certain hormones from being registered by the brain, leaving us in a more-or-less constant state of hunger (useful for when an animal wants to pack on fat to get through the winter). Eating in a low-insulin way (i.e., by restricting glucose/carbohydrate intake) allows appetite hormones to work properly and allows fat to leave adipose tissue to be metabolised.

My experience, and that of others on these forums, was that we continued to eat our usual quanitities for the first two or three weeks, when suddenly our appetite dropped. Dr. Phinney has observed this phenomenon in his studies of the ketogenic diet, and he says that someone with excess fat to shed will spontaneously eat about 1000 calories less at the beginning, even while eating to satiety. As the individual continues, and continues eating to satiety, the gap between the caloric value of food and the body’s energy needs inevitably narrows as excess fat has shed, to the point where, in the maintenance phase, the person is getting daily energy needs entirely from food intake, since there is no more excess fat to shed.

I haven’t seen any recommended amount of potassium for people on a ketogenic diet, only the general recommendations published by the government and health agencies that follow government recommendations. There is also no recommended caloric intake on keto, since the advice is to eat to satiety—that is, eat only when hungry, eat until hunger is satisfied, and don’t eat again until hungry again.

Lastly, potassium is a dangerous nutrient to deal with, since both too much (hyperkalaemia) and too little (hypokalaemia) can be deadly. If one can possibly get enough in the diet, that is the best way.

(Diana) #17

I was referring to all the ketoade recipes and recommendations which in itself contain quite high amount of potassium…and I thought I read somewhere the idea ratio of sodium to potassium was 1:2 so by virtue the potassium would have to be high. Perhaps I’ve just confused myself lol

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #18

Also, as far as caloric intake is concerned, here are a couple of thoughts:

First, there is published data of people on ad libitum ketogenic diets eating more food than one would consider a good idea and still losing weight. One study of an ad libitum ketogenic diet, cited by Gary Taubes, included a participant who ate 3000 kcal/day and still lost an amount of fat equivalent to the losses of the other participants. There have also been overfeeding studies in which people basically ate a lot of meat and did not gain weight.

Second, I find the experience of Sam Feltham, the British nutrition activist, to be interesting. He performed two experiments on himself, both involving 5000 kcal/day of food for 28 days. One experiment was a high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet, which gained him a fair deal of weight, all fat. After returning to his normal diet for a while, he embarked on a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet. On the latter diet, he gained a bit of weight, but it turned out that he had lost fat but gained enough lean mass to increase his scale weight slightly.

The converse is a case study published by the corporate physician at E. I. du Pont de Nemours during the 1950’s and 1960’s, where one of the company executives who had lost quite a bit of weight on a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet would start to regain fat immediately, if he ate so much as one extra apple. So the conclusion has to be that the body’s hormonal response to the food we eat is more important than the actual number of calories.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #19

This is one reason Brenda Zorn is no longer pushing her keto-ade recipe on these forums. The risk of overdosing people on potassium is not negligible, and as I mentioned, hyperkalaemia has been known to be fatal.

(Diana) #20

Okie dokie. Get potassium from food and don’t worry about it unless exhibiting signs of low potassium.

This helps as I just saw something on Reddit about 4500 mg potassium and I’m just thinking this is pure insanity. I just can’t logically think of how you would achieve that level without a supplement which is my whole point. You can’t get it from just eating normally (even if ad lib).

Also I must say I apologize in advance if I seem all over the place. Sometimes the questions I ask are for me (who is lean, maintenance) and sometimes I’m asking on behalf of my dad (who is T2, insulin resistant etc). I’m just calling this out as I was looking at some of my prior posts and was like oh man these people must think I have multiple personalities lol. I’ll specify from now on so it’s more clear.