Possible lasting damage to the heart from covid...in both younger and older folks

(Bob M) #1

Considering I’m 55 and ALREADY have idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy, I’m hoping I don’t get this disease.

(Bunny) #2

That’s why I would keep my vitamin C and Zinc intake in mind and on high alert including D from sunlight?

[1] “…Thus, patients with idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy had endothelial dysfunction, and administration of vitamin C reversed endothelium-dependent dysfunction. …” …Reversibility of coronary endothelial vasomotor dysfunction in idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy: acute effects of vitamin C

[2] “… Researchers from the Dr. Rath Research Institute in California developed a unique animal model. It is a transgenic mouse that resembles human metabolism in its key aspects, the inability to produce vitamin C and, at the same time, the synthesis of human Lipoprotein(a) – a variant of low-density-lipoprotein (LDL). Using this animal model they demonstrated that atherosclerosis, generally, starts with a dietary depletion of vitamin C and the ensuing structural weakness of the artery walls. This metabolic condition results in an increase in serum Lipoprotein(a) levels and its accumulation in the vascular wall that parallels atherosclerotic lesion development.

This study confirms the scientific concept published in 1990 in the ‘Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, USA’ by Matthias Rath, M.D., together with two-time Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling, M.D. They proposed that Lipoprotein(a) is a repair molecule that functions as a surrogate for vitamin C in the impaired vascular wall.

The most fascinating aspect of this animal model is the fact that it reproduces a genetic switch, the disappearance of vitamin C to the appearance of Lipoprotein(a), from about 40 million years ago. It proves the concept that a distinct event during the evolution of man can explain the susceptibility of modern man to cardiovascular disease. …” New Concept of Heart Disease Posits Vitamin C Deficiency as Culprit

Also interesting how Vitamin C administered intravenously can create hydrogen peroxide and kill cancer cells but not when taken orally or in a fat soluble liposomal form?

[3] “…The forms of vitamin C differ in terms of their mechanisms of action. For example, while oral vitamin C acts primarily as an antioxidant, pharmacologic doses of intravenous vitamin C greater than 1 gram generate hydrogen peroxide, a type of reactive oxygen species that can damage DNA, RNA, and proteins, leading to tissue damage. Multiple studies suggest that high dose intravenous vitamin C can assist in cancer cell death primarily due to the formation of hydrogen peroxide but that damage does not occur in normal, healthy cells. …” …Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Interesting indeed?

[4] “…Vitamin C is found in high concentrations in the brain, especially in the hippocampus and frontal cortex regions – areas that are important for memory consolidation, learning, and aspect of executive function. But here’s a surprise:

The brain retains vitamin C during times of deficiency at the expense of other tissues.

That’s really important because evidence suggests that vitamin C plays roles in the brain throughout the lifespan from development all the way up through older age, when it helps preserve cognitive function.

But the effects of vitamin C on brain development were particularly evident in a study in guinea pigs. Like humans, guinea pigs can’t synthesize their own vitamin C – they have to get it from their diet. Hippocampal development in guinea pigs that are deficient as newborns is reduced roughly 30 percent. I also learned that vitamin C influences fatty acid oxidation, often referred to as “fat burning.” In fact,…

Vitamin C levels are inversely correlated with body weight, particularly among people who are obese.

This might be because vitamin C is essential for the synthesis of carnitine – a compound that plays an important role in the utilization of fatty acids as energy. It’s possible that low vitamin C levels contribute to increased fat storage, which could have implications for people trying to lose weight.

This became evident in a study in mice that were fed a Western diet – one that’s high in fat and sugar – with or without vitamin C. The mice that received vitamin C gained less weight, particularly in terms of fat mass, compared to mice fed the Western diet alone. I suppose the real surprise for me was the sheer magnitude of variation in the bioavailability of vitamin C. …” …Dr. Rhonda Patrick


Relevant articles.






Best not to put yourself in harms way Bob. Wishing you the best.

Dilated cardiomyopathy reminds me of a spate of taurine deficiency in some patients I saw. There was an active enzyme that broke down that amino acid in their food and they ended up with dilated hearts. The other group have a genetic predisposition and the epi-genetic influences pushed them the wrong way.

The article mentions structural changes to the heart. I had a dilated left atrium for awhile but that corrected, in my case, over a period of about 6 months once I got control of some micronutients, not amino acids this time, minerals and mineral electrolyte combinations to control an arrhythmia. So, structural changes and sometimes inflammatory changes and damaged heart areas can be repaired. The viral damage that can also occur with severe influenza can be modulated and eventually rectified with a combination of low carb healthy fats nutritional ketosis and extended fasting that induces autophagy. But it’s best to check in with Tom @tdseest about that.

(Karen) #5

I’ve already had Covid. I hope my heart is OK.

(Tom Seest) #6

Technically, I was not diagnosed with idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy. My doctor(s) that diagnosed my heart failure claimed that I had Hypertension (I did not) and said that my cardiomyopathy was ischemic. I believe he was correct and that it was ischemic, but I believe his reasoning was incorrect. I’ve never had high blood pressure in my life. In any case, I’ve been successful in reversing heart failure twice now. It takes time, but in most cases, assuming the cause of the heart failure is known and resolved, I believe it can be reversed.

(Tom Seest) #7

I’m sorry to hear this. I hope you have recovered.

You can have heart failure and be asymptomatic and have no symptoms. But, normally, you’ll have trouble breathing while walking, or tire easily and have a few other symptoms. If you’re curious, you can run a lab test called “NtBNP Pro” or “BNP” and tell if you have heart failure.

(Tom Seest) #8

It is also possible that a side effect of COVID 19 is to have asymptomatic Atrial Fibrillation. This is what I had originally. I just managed to detect the high heart rate in my normal exercise routine at the time. In that case, you an either have a doctor run an EKG (it’s easy to detect on that) or purchase an AliveCor Kardia and run your own EKG’s.

(Karen) #9

I was sick with some breathing difficulties and coughing from January to mid March. I have Covid antibodies. I was not terribly sick. Never took my temperature either. My lungs are still junky. Thank you; perhaps I’ll have my heart tested


I agree but also standing instead of sitting. I found out by testing my blood pressure while sitting or standing that sitting blocked blood flow to my midsection and lowered my diastolic blood pressure below 60. Sitting made my heart hurt even more. I’ve been standing for a week and I’ve finally been feeling like I have nothing to worry about regarding my heart.

There’s also a mountain of research which has highlighted a deficiency of PUFA’s(6’s & 3’s depending on sex) and Vitamins in regards to impaired heart function after myocarditis.

(Tom Seest) #11

Any heart rhythm abnormalities will be visible on the EKG, and those usually aren’t overly expensive.

For a deep dive, you can get either a TTE (Transthoracic Echocardiogram) which will detect most ischemic and idiopathic damage and is not invasive. More annoying than anything.

A CCTA (Cardiac Computed Tomography Angiography) is a nuclear test but will reveal any minor issues as well as it is highly accurate. It also has the bonus in that you will learn your Angston score or Cardiac Calcium Score.


Hi Tom. I seem to remember heart scarring being part of your original diagnosis? Was that after a bad flu? I may have conflated those things, as you may have said in one of the podcast episodes that chest infections can result in direct inflammatory damage (and scarring) to heart muscle.

Anyhow, from your experience of an area of damage being resolved and my experience of seeing my left artrium remodel back to normal after getting a root cause diagnosis and treatment, there is this limited anecdotal evidence that heart healing is possible via fasting and providing the correct and essential building blocks for proper healing via the diet, while avoiding the situations that result in ongoing damage.

The concern I have is that COVID19 infection can be severe and acute. That means there may not be time for optimising healing after the infection before the consequences of the viral infection (on the heart) do become irreversible. So, the only logical way I can see around that is to get into the best health individually possible to minimise injury from the body’s response to the infection. That way there may be more leeway and time to dive deeper into healing afterwards. (This virus is one very demanding and tough “health coach”).

(Tom Seest) #13

I had viral pneumonia which lead to the scarring of the heart which caused Atrial Fibrillation with Rapid Ventricular Response (RVR).

The healing of the scarring on my heart took less than 9 months but I have no idea how severe it was. My hsCRP was 64 so the inflammation levels were high from the viral pneumonia.

(Amy the unicorn with a cucumber as her horn.🦄) #14

This is happening to me too. I had Covid in April. And have NEVER had heart problems. The other night… I thought I was dying of a damn heart attack. Dull ache in my heart, rapid beating, a tingle aching left arm. It was very very scary. My heart is ok at the moment…( tpuch wood). But it’s awful. I also have a very sore throat and cough all day and night. It’s a horrible virus. :pensive:

(Tom Seest) #15

I’m sorry to hear this. Let me know if I can help anyway.

Are you seeing a Cardiologist for it? Any diagnosis yet?



Fasting does increase Fibrinolysis…
The Failing Heart Relies on Ketone Bodies as a Fuel

I noticed polyphenols are also useful in breaking down cardiac fibrosis AFTER I cleared the virus. Same with Vitamin A and C in conjunction because they increase Fibrinolysis.


Acute vitamin C improves cardiac function, not exercise capacity, in adults with type 2 diabetes


The heart health benefits from being out in the Sun for 4 hours+.

I remember using a 500w halogen work light when I was sick with covid because there was no sunshine. One hell of a trip.


Hi Amy. What you describe is part of the longer term effects for some people.

You could take part in Dr. Gallo’s study?


Definitely is a horrible virus.

What’s your blood type if you don’t mind me asking?

(Amy the unicorn with a cucumber as her horn.🦄) #19

@Consistency I have NO idea but it went away for a few days. Now I’m frightened as my left arm is aching very badly. Trying not to panic. Terrible pain in my spine but that could be from car accident. I have stuff to do today and this sucks. I’m just sitting here trying not to panic. My hospital phobia is INTENSE. Plus I have stomach problems. Sharp pains that come and go. It’s a very very bad feeling wondering if your gonna need an ambulance or die any moment. I took magnesium, I took anti acid pills, I took probotic pill AND two paracetamol. It’s helped a little. Clammy hands and slight blue skin tinge… But that could be from going into shock. Just had a major panic attack…and I must keep calm. I exercised today. Sipping water. Trying very very hard to be ok.:pensive:. Stupid stupid me, drinking vodka for over a month. The Covid was bad enough…then silly me adds to it by self sabotaging. I was once a strong healthy girl. But now at just 31, sickly and weak and it’s all my own fault. I was doing so very well before the vodka. Sure I was sick with corona…VERY. but I survived. I’m a very silly girl and I don’t mean to be. Sorry I’m totally venting. Shouldn’t be. :heart:


I remember the virus inducing panic attacks. I have an aversion to the hospital also because I was almost sexually abused by a male homosexual psychologist and my doctor never helped me with getting healthy but if you feel like it’s an emergency. Please don’t wait because they’re most likely using more effective treatments at this time.

@Keto6468 @FrankoBear I’m willing to send money to one of you to buy @Bubby1 high dose B vitamins and Vitamin A/D. Especially a very high dose thiamine(Vitamin B1) since it is extremely antiviral from my experience.

@Bubby1 Are you having trouble falling asleep and being woken up during the night?