Podcast #120: "You're still fat"


(Karl) #1

In your latest podcast, you bring up the subject of the person being insulted for “still being fat”, despite her vastly improved health markers. Yep, everyone on this forum who sticks around is going to understand that it’s not always about how you look. It’s part of the reason I love this place. I do keto. I am skinny as hell. And I look ridiculously gaunt to myself - but it is what it is.

That said, I am a believer in the mantra “Perception is Reality”. Absent your ability to change this perception, people are going to make judgments based on what they perceive to be reality. You are absolutely correct that we have a lot of “bad players” in the keto community. Unfortunately, the “keto community” is often at odds with itself, with everyone doing things their own way to meet their own goals. For some, it’s simply getting healthy - which is why I respect “The Dudes” a great deal. They state quite readily why they do this, and they make no claims about being buff beach-bodied gym-bros who are the “picture of good health”. Carl straight-up told us about his vacation cheats - showing the all-too-human side of trying to keep things together for the sake of your health.

But everywhere you go, the “keto community” is rife with people saying “this isn’t keto” or “that’s not keto”, “you should test for ketones” versus “testing is useless”, “vegetables are healthy” versus “you should go carnivore,” etc - and subsequently muddying the waters to someone who doesn’t understand that there’s more than one way to skin this cat.

It’s why I often say that the biggest ingredient missing in the human diet is SANITY, because if you leave any room for interpretation people will do crazy things. For instance, like when people say “Calories don’t matter”, you can be damn sure someone will inevitably take that phrase and interpret it as “I can eat however much fat I want, because calories don’t matter and I’m still going to drop a million pounds”. Then people wonder why they hit these “stalls”, often blaming it on things like Artificial Sweeteners, Gluconeogenesis, or a mystery “Ingredient X” instead of maybe suspecting that perhaps they’re eating too much (not saying that’s the ultimate reason - just that it’s a distinct possibility that’s often completely discounted).

And of course, they’re doing this while reading posts about intermittent fasting and the guy who did it for 400 days with no loose skin at the end.

Jimmy Moore, in my opinion, is an interesting case. At one point, he absolutely got to a healthy weight, at least “visually”. If you look at his photos over time, you can see that at one point he nailed it - he made it to that healthy weight, and looked fantastic by pretty much everyone’s measure of someone looking “fit and healthy”. You would never had known he was north of 400lb. But then, for whatever reason (real-life, I suspect), a good deal of that weight came back. Now that Jimmy’s put some of the pounds back on, I can understand (without agreeing) why people would criticize him for “looking like a bag of donuts” when he gets up to the podium, or whatever it is I hear them say. I don’t necessarily AGREE with the criticism, because I’ve heard enough stories to know that Jimmy is still a human being with all the struggles that come along with it. But I can understand the criticism he’s going to inevitably get when he’s got BOOKS he’s authored on the subject and multiple podcasts to his name. He gets damn interesting guests on his show. He is held to that higher standard, because this is apparently how he makes his living (and hey, good on him for it. I’m absolutely jealous of his success - because hey, his hard work means his success is warranted!)

But since Perception is Reality - of course he is going to get criticized. I mean, look at Jillian Michaels. Sure, we all know to tune her out because she’s making her money selling carby goods and workout videos - which we know is completely unnecessary when doing the Keto thing. We are an affront to her business model. But you can’t really fault people for believing her when she’s up there looking like she does “walking the walk and talking the talk”. Believe me, if Jillian Michaels started creeping up in weight, people would notice and start criticizing her in the same way people criticize Keto Figureheads for “still being fat”. It doesn’t matter how much you tell people that they’re metabolically healthy - people equate “thin” with “healthy” even if they’re a train wreck on the inside. It’s similar to how people seem to equate eating a lot of vegetables with “being healthy”. It might not be true scientifically (right, Miss O’Hearn?) but you’re probably never going to stop the masses from thinking that way.

There’s no real point to this post - except to say that I understand why people are held to the standard of “you have to be thin if you’re going to preach keto”. I don’t agree with it - but the masses are going to do it. We ketoers are already behind the 8-ball with the world’s dietary recommendations being what they are. We all need to have a thick skin, because this skewed perception isn’t going away anytime soon. The fact that our community is so disjointed with its own ideals as to “what makes Keto, Keto” simply makes things worse for all of us. Sadly, the “obese but metabolically healthy” school is stuck swimming in the same waters as the “bodybuilding picture-of-health” school, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.


(Todd Allen) #2

I thought you had some good points but I disagree with the above. The big tent with room for vegans, carnivores, steady rollers, fast & feasters and people of all body types with differing goals is good for keto not a problem. I think a “my way is best” attitude is unhelpful whether it comes from the fringe or the center. But for the most part we do a good job of presenting options and helping people find something that works for themselves.


(Karl) #3

Well, that may not be a great choice of words on my part. To clarify, the “community at large” meaning the entire collective of “keto communities” - not necessarily THIS particular community.

Because yeah - typically WE do act sanely. But there are lots of other communities that are not so sane. And even with the bulk of people on this forum being perfectly sane, I still see plenty of “not sane” people finding their way here with their pee-sticks in hand claiming to be thrown out of ketosis over a quarter gram of sucralose or whatever :slight_smile:

I never meant to imply that this particular community is “not sane”, in fact - just the opposite. I find this community to be one of the most sane. I would never have made a post like this on, say, “Keto Connection” on facebook. There’s just too much insanity there, and this message would have been lost on that community. That’s not to say I don’t enjoy KC though, in a bit of a train-wreck kind of way :slight_smile:


(Tom Seest) #4

My journey to better health has had both ups and downs over the last 15 years. I’m just happy to see my toes everyday, and to still be alive; given some of the turns it’s taken. Fortunately, I’ve never really been worried about what others think about it, but I can understand that it can lead to frustration.

I just hope that people can find a way around it and find joy in the journey…


(karen) #5

The issue as I see it is that - as you pointed out yesterday @IceNine - finding “The Best Keto”, or the best diet, period, is a personal thing. That is the gold standard of keto, really, figuring out what works for you and gets you healthy and, ideally, at a weight that pleases you. “Keto” is a big basket of different ideas and techniques that revolves around the idea of putting the body into a state of producing and burning ketones, beyond that, I feel it’s undefined By Definition - it’s about figuring out what works for the individual.

Unfortunately, this doesn’t play well with the masses and the media, who all want a one size fits all approach with strict rules that they can treat like a religion - and tear down if they dislike any of it. They don’t like subjective sense of beauty and body pride that is individually flexible. They don’t want to do real work or n=1 to figure out how they should live. They don’t really care about “health” until they get sick. To quote Bertrand Russell:

“Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so.”


(Joe) #6

I go back to the idea of we need to try to brand a WOE. LCHF shouldn’t be viewed of as a “diet” but rather simply eating as we are meant to. Diets have spokespeople (Oprah, Jillian, former athletes touting meal delivery plans). The only spokesperson. I feel we need is science. When unbiased and uncorrupted it doesn’t lie or have an agenda

Our babysitter has lost 90 pounds on the past year and I was talking to her about her diet. Turns out she is pretty much eating low carb healthy fat. Yet she never even heard of the word keto.

I love this way of eating because it is scientifically sound. Has evidence to support it and simply makes sense. The more we try to force “keto” we are pinned up against a huge fitness and medical industry whose interest is not aligned with health. They are aligned with making money and keeping sick people alive and paying for pills and gym memberships.