Plant or meat based diets for mental health?

(Bill) #61

I’d hazard a guess at “nutrition facts” and Greger…

(Edith) #62

This was an awesome podcast about Bipolar 1 & 2 disorders. Dr. Chris Palmer is the third of the three people interviewed. The first person is someone who has Bipolar 1 and has put his mental illness into remission with keto and the help of Dr. Palmer. The second interviewee is a person who suffers from Bipolar 2 and is also a researcher on bipolar disorder.

(Mario) #63

Thank you for sharing that, VirginiaEdie!

Will have a listen. I also just got Dr Palmer’s book. Haven’t gotten very far yet. Have some reading to do…

(Dee) #64

I am by no means an expert. But the Keto Dudes had a podcast that featured Carrie Brown, I can’t seem to find that podcast. Anyway, Carrie suffers or suffered from a bipolar disorder. She was on various meds to treat it. She eventually decided to try the Keto Diet & was able to get off all of her meds. I hope it’s ok to add this link re: Carrie’s struggle with bipolar.

Carrie Brown - Overcoming Bipolar / Depression, from Pastry Chef to Carnivore


Also no expert here, but I’ve been following a keto WOE for six months now, leaning almost toward carnivore more recently. Certainly heavy on the egg and meat consumption all the way through.

I’ve struggled with severe depression all of my life, and expert or not, I think I can categorically say that for me at least, eating this way has only improved my mental health. If such a diet actually worsened mental health issues, I would certainly expect to be in a very bad way right now ; )

(Duane) #66

Impressive results. The measured changes are LARGE…


Follow Iowa Dairy Farmer on TikTok, Instagram. Might change your mind about commercial farming.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #68

I’ll check him out. So far, I’ve been following the Understanding Ag channel, Gabe Brown, Richard Teague, Peter Ballerstedt, and Alan Savory. The farmers Joel Salatin and Greg Judy practise regenerative principles with great success, but they are not researchers. (Though their practical experience is not to be discounted, of course.)

(BuckRimfire) #69

In addition to signalling that you’re probably trying to reduce your animal food consumption relative to a “typical” omnivore, flexitarian could mean that if served a vegan/vegetarian dinner, one won’t complain that this is inadequate!

(BuckRimfire) #70

I suppose that’s possible, but very uncertain. I’ve been thin my whole life (BMI about 21-22 for many years) and when I went keto/low-carb, I lost about three pounds for a few months, then returned to my usual constant weight. Based on how easily you can see my veins and abs, my body fat percentage probably is a bit lower than on high-carb.

In late 2021 I added early morning protein shakes and more weight training and gained six pounds, but when I cut out the shakes and did more walking and less weight training, I went back to my usual weight in a few months.

How old is he?

(Mario) #71

He is 21

(Mario) #72

Thank you. Haven’t listened to it yet but I most certainly will. Here is a link to the podcast outside of youtube:

Actually saw a bunch of other interesting podcasts on there talking about keto and mental health.

(Mario) #73

Thanks for sending this across, Paul. And I totally would have missed the meal plan had you not mentioned it. Very cool!

(Dee) #74

You’re welcome! :slightly_smiling_face:

(KM) #76

I keep going back to your son’s attempt at keto. Part of what’s advised is to eat “to satiety”. I don’t know how much food he chose to eat, but it is definitely not necessary to stuff yourself with fat, or try to meet some fat macro just for the sake of hitting it. I think a diet of peanut butter and olive oil might make me throw up as well.

Personally, I “eat around carbs” with a variety of whole foods which have enough calories (usually fat) to be satisfying. That could be a ribeye steak, or an avocado, or a kale salad dressed in olive oil, or an egg fried in butter, or a plate of smoked salmon. Keto is honestly very flexible and can contain lots of what someone finds personally delicious, as long as that mix of foods is scanned carefully for carb content, and contains a reasonable amount of fat.

ETA:. For myself, I found that paradoxically, although I was trying keto for weight loss, the very fact of N=1 and taking charge of my own health and nutritional experimentation helped my sense of anxiety and depression. I wish you a productive journey!

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #77

This is a very good point.

I suspect that part of the confusion is that a high-fat, very low protein version of keto was devised as a treatment for drug-resistant epilepsy in children, and the memory of that therapeutic ketogenic diet still colours people’s understanding of what keto is, even though there is now research to show that a more reasonable balance between fat and protein effectively treats epileptic seizures.

In addition, polyunsaturated fatty acids tend to lead to nausea when overeaten, which is one of the reasons we recommend fat sources that contain more saturated and mono-unsaturated fats.


All fats may do that, no overeating is needed but sudden changes “help”. I had nausea when I first tried carnivore as my food suddenly got way fattier (volume wise) without my usual plants (it went away very quickly and I just ate less fat until then). I am sensitive to my food dripping with fat anyway, it’s very different from eating naturally fatty food. So there are various possible reasons especially for someone who isn’t used to eating that fatty.

Therapeutic keto is one thing but there is the 75/20/5 too, super popular. Many people think keto means that. And 75% fat is too much for many of us. It’s definitely way too much for me but it has a lot to do with my high protein needs (I usually don’t feel bad though, I just overeat).
I can’t even imagine what it is like to jump from low-fat to keto…
Even if one is like me (fat intake stays or drops when going lower-carb), it may be still a big change, grains and huge amounts of vegs can soak up so much fat… (And it’s often easier to eat very fatty desserts than very fatty meats. But keto allows sweets so it may be not important here.)

(Mario) #79

Thank you for your continued insight! And yes, I think I might get nauseous off of olive oil and peanut butter too. We have an appointment next week with a nutritionist who has experience with keto for mental health. I want to make sure he does this transition correctly and stays into ketosis to give this the best chance.

(Oliver ) #80

Intresting. When I have tried to eat a mostly plant based diet I kind of always end up choosing soy as the protein source (I think because its the most available vegan protein source where I live). Now I have tried lately with good results to choose more meat and eggs as my protein source. Now I dont want to overconsume meat (so I try to limit it to like one serving a day or something similar). While I its maybe not the most keto friendly product I have lately been drinking like a cup soy milk of day.


And how much is that? Because I don’t have any idea with this little info and I am very curious about these things :slight_smile: And protein needs and whatnot :slight_smile:
I only eat up to 21oz meat in one sitting (it’s a nice, safe amount for me, I really don’t want to overeat protein but I need a higher amount than many, apparently) but some people are way, way more capable :smiley: Meanwhile some people consider 3oz meat a portion and not everyone has a biggish, protein rich meal anyway. But we have so many options for protein!
(21oz and 3oz are 588g and 84g if you use proper measurements… I do but people on this forum usually don’t so I calculate a lot when writing here.)

I never liked soy but I never went vegan either (I would do it without soy for sure, there are options). The only vegan protein that is a good option for me (not carby, not expensive, easy to make it into a super delicious and filling food) is gluten. That will be the first item to add in 2023 if carnivore eventually gets boring (it always happened this far, I am hopeful but should be ready).