Placebo outperforms Pfizer test drug

(Joey) #1

The stats cited in this CNBC article really cracked me up.

In short: not only did those on a placebo lose MORE weight than those on the test drug, but while 50% of those on the drug couldn’t tolerate it and stopped, a full 40% of the subjects taking the placebo couldn’t tolerate that either!

(Perhaps this proves the danger of sugar pills? :face_with_raised_eyebrow: )

Pharma science crawls forward…

"All dose sizes of Pfizer’s pill showed “statistically significant reductions” in body weight ranging from 6.9% to 11.7% at 32 weeks, and from 4.8% to 9.4% at 26 weeks. Meanwhile, patients on a placebo lost 8% to 13% of their body weight at 32 weeks and 5% to 9.5% at 26 weeks, Pfizer said.

“The company said high rates of adverse events were observed among patients in the study, with up to 73% experiencing nausea, up to 47% vomiting and up to 25% experiencing diarrhea. More than 50% of patients across all dose sizes stopped taking the pill, compared to roughly 40% among those on the placebo, according to Pfizer.”

Source:

(Doug) #2

Good mention, Joey. Yeah - some head-shaking facts and figures there. :smirk::smile:

(Bob M) #3

Makes one wonder if the placebo wasn’t a placebo.

I always thought this was interesting:

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/page/3/

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(Joey) #4

I’ve always lamented the fact that I cannot prescribe myself a placebo. Would be so effective if only I could. :man_shrugging:

(Todd Allen) #5

Indeed. I wouldn’t trust the results of a diabetes drug tested against placebo sugar pills.

(Doug) #6

Something isn’t right - what I see in the article is:

Patients who took the pill twice a day lost 6.9% to 11.7% of their body weight on average at 32 weeks, and from 4.8% to 9.4% at 26 weeks.

Meanwhile, patients on a placebo gained 1.4% of their body weight at 32 weeks and 0.17% at 26 weeks.

When adjusting for the difference between the weight gain observed in patients who took the placebo, Pfizer’s twice-daily pill caused 8% to 13% weight loss on average at 32 weeks and 5% to 9.5% at 26 weeks.

(Joey) #7

I simply cut 'n pasted from the article at the time I posted. Are you seeing a different edited version at present?

(KM) #8

May I go off on a tangent? Dan Ugly Pron. Really? I think I’d have side effects too.

(Doug) #9

Yeah, Joey - what I see now in the CNBC article is that the people getting the placebo gained a little bit of weight. The 26 week placebo group gained 0.17% of their body weight, and the 32 week placebo group gained 1.4%.

The people who took the drug for 26 weeks lost 4.8% to 9.4% of their body weight.

The people who took the drug for 32 weeks lost 6.9% to 11.7%.

Then - as I am reading it - they deemed the placebo groups as ‘control’ groups, and, assumed that without the drug, the drug-taking groups would have gained what the placebo groups did. So they took the raw weight-loss figures for the drug groups and increased them by the corresponding weight gain in the placebo groups.

Like, “You lost 18 lbs, and the control (placebo) group gained 2 lbs, so the drug made a net difference of 20 lbs.”

They did change the article: “PUBLISHED FRI, DEC 1 2023 6:45 AM EST UPDATED FRI, DEC 1 2023 4:22 PM EST”

And the darn thing is still poorly-written. I had to go over it 4 or 5 times to make sure of what it was really saying.

(Joey) #10

@OldDoug Ha… Thanks for the followup!

That’s quite a hoot… so yes, the original article passage as posted (as I’d copied and pasted above) told a very different story than this revised version.

Perhaps Pfizer called CNBC to point out how they’d screwed up their original writeup.

Well, this makes a bit more sense. Although I still see this passage:

“More than 50% of patients across all dose sizes stopped taking the pill, compared to roughly 40% among those on the placebo, according to Pfizer.”

… which still suggests quite a few folks can’t tolerate a placebo very well. :wink:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #11

What I want to know, Bob, is whether the statins’ cholesterol-lowering effects were comparable to those of the placebos. Now, that would be interesting!

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

From the writeup at clinicaltrials.org:

Study Start (Actual): 2021-01-29
Primary Completion (Actual): 2023-09-13
Study Completion (Actual): 2023-10-11
Enrollment (Actual): 630
Study Type: Interventional
Phase: Phase 2

From the CNBC article:

Clarification: This story was updated to reflect that some weight-loss data was adjusted to include results from the placebo group.

I wonder if the study will ever be published.

(Joey) #13

The original print wasn’t lacking explicit placebo group weight-loss data. It was included. So perhaps a more honest editorial disclosure note would be:

Clarification: This story was updated to correct erroneous weight-loss data previously reported for the placebo group.

#14

That would be a really weird one, but placebo doesn’t always equal sugar pills even though that became synonymous with them. There’s a lot of inert things they can use in them.