Pins and Needles Tingling cured with sugar!

#5

Yes, i try to eat some nuts every day. But i have found that i can eat 50 grams of carbs in one sitting and never get out of ketosis.

(Ken) #6

Good observation. It would probably help if you added some simple carbs such as dextrose (Smarties are dextrose, but other candy would probably work) around your cardio. That way they’d be readily available for your body, would be burned quickly, and allow you to drop back into lipolysis faster. Perhaps 20g before and right after would be a good start. After eight months having the occasional Carb meal is probably beneficial.

#7

That sounds like a good plan, I will try that. Is dextrose better for the body to utilize? Do you think that maybe my nerves are just starved and they need some sugar? The same thing happened today, I woke up feeling fine, then as the day progressed I started getting pins and needles. I used a ketostix and immediately turned it deep magenta, practically black. So this time I ate a tangerine, the juice of two limes, some almonds, and an apple with some chicken veggie broth. It took a couple hours this time but it got better. Just wondering what could be going on. Apparently i now have to keep my sugar in a very strict range or i will suffer nerve pain, makes me wonder if this keto diet is good for us after all. I wonder what i have done to my body, maybe i am now clinically diabetic. I mean, shouldn’t my liver and kidneys make enough glucose for my body 's needs even if I’m not eating any carbs? I never felt like this when i did zero carb for 2 months. It doesn’t make sense. Thanks

#8

I get the same thing. I had an MRI in 2003 which showed nothing thankfully. After that I ignore it. I have Hashimotos and take Synthroid. Recently my dose was too high and I got this. When it is too low I get minor muscle twitches especially in my eye areas

(Ken) #9

Dextrose is also referred to as Glucose-d. It goes right into your system. It’s the same concept as a MCT, but a Carb instead of a fat. Other sugars such as fructose need to go through a digestive process, needing an enzyme. Fructose requires fructokinease for example. One roll of Smarties has six and one half grams of dextrose, so three rolls would get you 19.5g. I use them for TKD, I use a stick blender with a cup or two of water.

You can also consider flipping your macros one day a week. Going to a Carb based day but still eating under maintenance. If you’re experiencing other, more severe starvation signs you can go for weekly glycogen recompensation, if necessary.

It sounds like your body is well adapted to using fat. If you’re following a high fat macro, I’d consider dropping to the 60/35/5% one, making more protein available for cellular functions and encouraging your body to use more stored fat. The additional protein will contribute to satiety, and if you add in a few more fibrous veggies it would probably be beneficial as well.

Don’t count the pre and post cardio carbs as part of your macros.

(Bea ) #10

It s B1 deficiency. it s all about ur nerves:

Strange sensation, body buzzing
#11

I started getting mild pins and needles this morning. So i bought some b1 and took 100 mg in the morning and chewed up the tablet in my mouth so it would absorb faster. Within about an hour the feeling went away and never came back all day! I also had more energy today, alot more energy. I think my body was so depleted of b1 that it was literally starving of energy. Apparently the b1 helps cells utilize energy, so my cells were starving, thus my body ramped up its ketone production to compensate. Kinda like diabetics when they get ketoacidosis because their cells cannot uptake glucose since there is no insulin around. I knew something was seriously wrong because I was eating way too many carbs to be turning the ketostix dark purple. And I have never turned them that dark even when I first started the diet. It was pretty scary, but now the stix are back to normal - around 1 to 3 mmol, and I ate alot less carbs today so they technically should have been higher instead of lower. I am pretty well fat adapted I believe, and I have started cutting back on the fat consumption in hopes that I would burn up a little more body fat, so I will keep that up for now. And if I keep feeling as great as I did today I will continue the 18 hour fasts, which are pretty easy for me anyway.
The funny thing is that I started taking b12 and b complex about a week ago because I had read that the b vitamins are needed for nerve health, but they didn’t help the pins and needles. This morning I looked at the bottle of complex and it didn’t even have b1, b7, or b9. It figures the one I really needed wasn’t in there.
Im curious, what are other starvation symptoms?
I will definitely try the smarties before and after my work out to see if it helps boost energy and recovery.
I wonder if my binge eating is what caused the deficiency in the first place. Because when I binge its out of control, so bad that I’m embarrassed to even talk about it. My body gets all cramped up from the excess sugar and all caution gets thrown to the wind. I think I need a support group because I am a food addict, I wish I could say I was joking.
I want to say thank you to everyone for the most precious information and I am very grateful to have found the help I needed.
So so so happy to be feeling better today😁

(Jack Brien) #12

He mentions kefir at the end there. I’ve had this going for a while now and the yeast builds up as I generally just drink the kefir. Great, now I know there’s a good reason to use it!

#13

Patty, in all kindness, please consider contacting a therapist or organization and getting hooked up with support resources. What you are describing is beyond the scope of basic food or exercise advice. I’m very happy for you that you are working to take care of yourself, so please carry it a step further and get with a group that will aid you.


http://www.greysheet.org/
http://www.foodaddictsanonymous.org/
http://www.foodaddicts.org/

(Ken) #14

If you’re B-1 deficient, (the other B vitamins as well) the real answer is a higher protein macro, not a supplement. Protein supports many other functions, besides providing B-1. Roughly 35% would be a good place to start.

Terms like Carb binging and Cheating are subjective terms with negative connotations. I prefer more accurate terms, oriented towards the Science. Carbs eaten periodically/occasionally within a lipolytic nutritional pattern merely, and temporarily halt lipolysis. Kept to a non-adaptive frequency so as not to lead to chronic overcompensation of glycogen, they will not affect the efficiency of the adaptive lipolytic process. If fat loss is the focus, they should only be occaisional, for metabolic purposes, and if in maintence, to a level that doesn’t result in chronic overcompensation of glycogen.

One Carb meal, or even a day or two, is fairly insignificant within the context of a fat based, lipolytic nutritional pattern. Any weight gain within that small period is not fat, only water or glycogen.

#15

Thanks for the info.

#16

What would be the metabolic purpose for overeating carbs periodically and within the ranges you described? How would it benefit us metabolically? Thanks

(Ken) #17

It doesn’t have to be a question of overeating, that’s really another subjective term. The real question is the potential metabolic effects of periodically eating carbs. It’s all about attaining a normal metabolic state with no detrimental effects like metabolic rate reduction, cortisol secretions, energy levels, etc. This is more relevant the more active a person is, like an athlete or someone who trains regularly.

Simply reversing your Carb/fat macros for a meal is the most basic level, especially if you’re following caloric restriction. Doing this for a day or two would be the next level, and going to a full glycogen recompensation by eating enough excess carbs to refill glycogen would be the last. None of these things really qualify as overeating, because if the recompensation doesn’t turn into chronic overcompensation of glycogen, no adaptive changes resulting in fat gain will occur. The effects will all be metabolic. It does require some expermentation, in order to find what works for you.

#18

I brought up nuts because the have anti - nutrients and physic acid. For many people they cause problems such a joint soreness. My husband has noticed his tinnitis gets worse when he eats peanut butter or nuts.

#19

Yeah i know they have phytic, oxalic, salycylic acid, and probably more anti nutrients and I have even soaked them before to try to get rid of therm. But I do so enjoy an apple with some almonds. I’ve stopped eating dark greens because they have so much acid that they leave my teeth feeling gritty all day and I hate it. But with these health problems I’ve been having I might just start eating some again since they are so full of vitamins. Thanks

#20

Well the last time i went on a “recompensation” (I love that term, it makes me feel like i didn’t lose my mind for a week and a half eating anything i could get my greedy little hands on) it lasted for about 10 days before I came to my senses. My body probably started going glycolytic again, and I had muscle cramps, headaches, diarrhea, I physically felt horrible but I couldn’t get a grip on stopping. But that’s old news, I’m back on the wagon again.
I actually eat alot of meat. Mostly meat with some veggies and fruit and cheese and nuts. I’m still getting the pins and needles but it has been milder, maybe it takes a while for the nerves to recuperate?
I bought some nutritional yeast, and some bee pollen in hopes that I can boost my b vitamins more naturally. And I suppose I can start eating some greens again. I guess I will stop IF for now to see if eating more helps with the nerve problem. And start eating at least twice per day for a week or two. Maybe my body needs a beak from losing fat.
You said other signs of starvation? What would they be, and does that mean that pins and needles could be a sign of starvation?
So if I understand correctly, I should switch my carb/fat macros for one meal once a week. If I feel like that’s not enough I could do this two days in a row for one meal each day. If that’s still not enough I could do a full glycogen recompensation.
What’s a proper full glycogen recompensation look like? As in how much food, carbs?
You mentioned the grehlin response, so is it good to have a sustained grhelin response?

(Ken) #21

OK, your “pins & needles” sensation may be a sign of malnutrition, on some level. It could be due to some sort of vitamin or mineral issue.

A full glycogen recomp usually lasts about 36hrs. like from Friday night through Saturday. It helps if you do a starved full body workout right before, to prime the muscles for glycogen uptake. I like circuit training, but any workout will work.

Here’s a guide to figure out food/calories. Take caloric requirements for a 36hr period. Convert to a 65/35% Carb based macro. Add to it the same number of calories, but make it ALL carbs. Consume all this over the period. Avoid fats during this period, to avoid a synergistically increased insulin response. Carb selection is really an individual choice, I like to have complex carbs first, tapering off into simple ones the second day. Eat the things you like. Afterwards, IF until hungry, which is the ghrelin response. When that happens, resume your keto pattern. You’ll gain lot’s of weight in glycogen, but it’ll deplete in a day or two. Weigh yourself a couple of times per day, starting with before the depletion workout and ending a couple of days after resuming keto, you’ll find the results interesting. Be sure to post your experience.

#22

Thanks for all the info! I will try it when I get better, think I may have the flu.

#23

Wow… I write about the tingling below but first, I know I’m late since the post is so old, but keto should not be used to lose weight if you have any chance of having a body dismorphia, like when you have anorexia, because it won’t be any different than eating carbs, you will still harm yourself if you go overboard.

If you have an eating disorder in which you seek control, keto will probably will give you that sense of control and could help you reach better eating habits in the long run, but you should not forget your health (physical and mental) comes first. If you are already at a fit percentage body fat, you have to eat enough calories to cover at least your resting metabolic rate so you don’t die and preferably you should always start keto at a maintenance amount of calories for a few weeks. You should never move into a calorie deficit that is so large and unsustainable, that later it makes you binge. It totally defeats the purpose of keto. It’s not meant to be a short term sprint but a sustainable, comfortable eating habit that gives you a healthy life. Make sure that whatever keto plan you choose, it is something that you could stick to long term since you should give your body at least two weeks to stabilize and get it to use the ketones it produces (starting and stopping is probably why you get high ketone readings, they only mark the start of ketosis and go down as you continue).

To answer the question, I get tingling when my electrolytes are off and when I move in and out of ketosis but they are short lived, it could be related to that. Like, when I first started keto, they were bad and if I cheat or purposely plan a carb-up I will feel like little pricks after eating and as I go back into keto. Also, my joints feel a little weird when I change diets. Make sure you not only control potassium and sodium but also make sure you get enough magnesium and calcium. If you also have bulimia you’re probably losing a lot of potassium and sodium when purging so make sure you keep that in mind and up the intake a lot if you do, especially if you feel lethargic. Carbs help retain water and regulate electrolytes, so you might just be eating too few for your body to stay lubricated enough to function properly. Zero carb and even traditional keto can be too little carbs for some people, you might just have to up your overall carb intake during keto. Make sure you drink water if you feel thirsty or make your own homemade ketorade. Also make sure you count net carbs and not the fiber since you just poop that. For foods, eat lots of spinach, broccoli, mushrooms and almonds.

Please seek counseling of both a psychologist and a nutritionist so that they can help you tailor a form of keto that will help you stay healthy and free from anorexia, while still feeling in control. I really hope that you’re doing ok.

(Adrian ) #24

Why would a Keto-er be B1 deficient? Doesn’t make sense