Paleolithic Ketogenic Diet

#81

Marrow bones can be considered a delicacy for sure. Some love it to death. Others won’t touch it LOL

It is a soft creamy meaty taste but can be kinda ‘textury’ in how it is cooked. Kinda ‘nubby and globual’ or can be cooked more to super creamy texture.

I like it. Can’t eat a ton of it cause it doesn’t grab me all in, but a good thing to eat every once in a while.

Marrow bones are offered in many good upscale restaurants and you can pay dearly for them.

Butchers, meat counters in stores have them already cut/sliced open…a lot of ‘dog bones’ are sold whole where you have to cut the bone or scoop out the marrow when done cooking.

I love reading along this PKD thread. I don’t know it or researched on it but I m finding it very interesting to read and learn from you guys!! Good thread!

(Elizabeth ) #82
#83

@FGH I use marrow bones in my bone broth. You can get them from local butchers and online too. I love the stuff.

(mole person) #84

So I trolled through several months of the PKD forum on Reddit yesterday (I saw you there @ReneeRC!) and found a better understanding of how to know exactly how much meat I should be eating.

400 grams for an average sized person was very unsatisfactory to me since I doubt I’m average sized. I probably need even less than that. Anyhow this is how they recommend the diet be properly calibrated to the individual. 400 grams is just where they start you.

You are supposed to take your blood ketones and fasting glucose daily at the start when you are calibrating the diet. Fasting glucose should be under 80 (preferably closer to 70) and morning ketones above 2 (preferably closer to 3). If your glucose is too high you are eating too much and if your ketones too low you are eating to low a fat to protein ratio.

This is great. I’m going to start as soon as I’m home on Tuesday.

#85

Yes, I’m eating 2:1 and sometimes more but my ketones are usually around 2.5. I did have one 3.0 but I’d love to see more of those or higher. I can’t wait to see how you do @Ilana_Rose :+1:

(mole person) #86

2.5 is awesome. I hope I see such a good number.

#87

I had a 3.1 ketone number this morning which is my highest yet. Hope you are doing well too.

#88

Hi All,

I’ve been doing PKD since may last year, but I’ve struggled to not eat more than 400g a day, though I maintain the ratio. Over christmas I reintroduced coffee and havent noticed a significant deleterious effect so have kept drinking a cup or two every day. I’m still struglling with my health though. I have a disease called multifocal motor neuropathy, which is controlled by IVIG treatment every 6 weeks. PM want me to come off the IVIG but I can’t because it turns me into a cripple, my hands basically stop working. I admit I get frustrated with PM because they seem to have this very narrow one size fits all formula, and seem to be very cavalier about encouraging discontinuation of medication, even in the absence of evidence that the diet is actually controlling the condition. For me coming off my medication would be like letting go of a lifeline.

I think the key Is keeping blood glucose low, I’m now checking it every morning and find I can keep it below 4.5 when I go to bed a little hungry. I’m going to give PM the benefit of the doubt and keep at it and keep tweaking. Solidarity to everyone who is trying this. PKD is brutally tough if you’re not in a strong spiritual and mental place and it requires an incredible sense of purpose and convition.

#89

I posted a PKD video over in the other video thread. Just saying if anyone wants to check this lady out :slight_smile:

(mole person) #90

Grr…what I am is the laziest woman on the planet. I bought the blood ketone and glucose monitor months ago. I was so jazzed for it. And I just kept putting off starting because I wanted to wait for perfect conditions so that the data wouldn’t be influenced by extraneous factors. But it’s turned into endless procrastination.

That’s it. You are my motivation, girl. Gonna get it set up today and take my first fasting numbers tomorrow morning.

I’m also going to start a new thread in the progress section detailing my trials of PKD. Anyone here is who is trying to keep to a PKD type diet is very welcome to join me and post their own results, victories, failures, difficulties etc. It might be fun, as it’s hard to do alone.

(Darcy Greenwald) #91

Hi Renee! So sorry it has been a while since I have been in touch. How are you doing with your PKD?? I had my third (and final?) consult with Paleomedicina. It was very interesting, and I’ve decided to keep going with the PKD. Regarding your questions about sodium and protein intake for older folks, they said no need to worry about it at all, that there was no need to tweak anything for age.

I ended up after our last exchange, adding in more vegetables and some iodine, and I did notice a direct pick up in energy, mood, etc. I sent my labs in, and Dr Clemens told me (to my great surprise) that my labs were “absolutely perfect”. She said to go ahead and wean off the rest of my thyroid med, and of course this is probably going to take another 3-4 weeks to adjust. I haven’t decided whether I’ll cut the 15mg in half first, or just dive in and be miserable for another month! Once again, she doesn’t know how many of my symptoms are Armour related, but guesses a lot of them are–especially the chronic low energy, anxiety, plugged ears, itchy skin.

She really emphasizes keeping the amount of food low. They use the glucose and ketone measuring heavily, and find that symptoms (of course once the person weans off the medication) are correlated with rises in glucose and dips in ketones. So ideally always keeping glucose below 80 and ketones above 2. I am going to play around with what types of vegetables and amounts I am able to add in to stay within these parameters. She said I’m very healthy (surprising to me!) according to my labs, and that I can tolerate some small amount of vegetable (mostly for my mood and immediate energy) but that for long-term, everyone is better off not eating vegetables at all.

I also asked her about autoimmunity–because I have the markers showing up in my bloodwork for lupus (but no symptoms). She said that the autoimmune markers often just stay the same in people, so they simply ignore them and don’t add them to bloodwork. Rather, they simply target markers of inflammation and nutritional balance. But when people stay on the PKD the leaky gut heals, and all the autoimmune symptoms just go away.

Also, I told her I had added some iodine drops in, but they don’t recommend it. They recommend getting ALL nutrition from organ meats. But I still may go ahead and add a few drops in while I am transitioning off the rest of my thyroid med, because I thought it really helped.

I am really struggling with liver, and the pate makes me gag, so I am considering doing raw liver “pills”–deep freezing for a week, and then cutting into daily 30-40gram doses with some added fat. By the way, I tried cutting back on lard and replacing with pork belly (non-rendered fat) and that made a big difference in my diarrhea too. I am going to order some of the beef suet that you mentioned, and try that next.

Btw, how much do you sleep on this diet? I’ve been sleeping only 4-5 hours/night…and Dr Clemens said around 5 hours/night is pretty normal for many people on the PKD. I have to get past my mental association that I am going to be exhausted for the rest of the day…I also have bleeding gums which she said would subside over time.

I’ve already come this far…I feel I need to keep going through the process to see where I end up. Its great though to have a connection with someone else going through this process! I’d love it if you kept me posted on your progress…

Happy New Year to you!!!

(mole person) #92

This has got to be hard. Have you tried altering the ratio? I understand they encourage going towards 3:1 if one finds satiation at 2:1 difficult.

I think if I were trying PKD for healing a condition like yours I wouldn’t alter the diet to re-include any plant matter. When you do this you’re throwing the entire premise of the diet out (that in some people eating plants results in leaky gut and this results in a host of disease conditions). Just because you can’t feel any deleterious effects doesn’t mean it’s not worsening the very thing that they are trying to fix in order to achieve the healing that you are after. Leaky gut doesn’t feel like anything.

Sometimes healing takes significant time. I’ve been carnivore for almost a year now and I’m still getting better month over month. In the last two months one condition that I’ve struggled with since I was in my teens finally changed significantly for the better after absolutely nothing happening for 2 years of keto and one year of carnivore.

Have you seen any benefits from the diet to date on your health?

I can see how it’s frustrating and honestly I would probably be very reluctant to give up such a massive quality of life altering treatment myself. With respect, however, to their one size fits all approach; it does make sense. They believe that a huge number of disease states are caused by biological disfunctions related to things we consume. They’ve found that even medications and supplements keep people in disease states that heal better once those things are gone. It’s basically their entire hypothesis. I don’t know what to suggest though. I’d be loathe to give it a go under your circumstances as well.

I hope you find better relief soon.

#93

Yes, PKD is super strict but it does make sense. Years ago, in an attempt to regain my health I went to a fasting clinic where we had nothing but water and had our labs done weekly. There were quite a few amazing things that went on there! It seems to me that the PKD tries to keep our bodies fooled, so to speak, into thinking we’re fasting (low amount of food intake and only meat yet heavy on organs for quality nutrition) so that our bodies can heal.

I agree that the key is keeping that blood glucose low and when one is hungry it is hard to do. Like @Ilana_Rose said, if hungry (and you’ve already had enough protein for the meal) I’d try going to 3:1. I screwed up my fat intake (bone broth issues, sigh) and my glucose went to 8.3 instead of the usual 74. I felt horrible, ugh. I’m glad you are checking your glucose every morning now. Are you checking your ketones too? Hang in there and keep going. {{HUGS}}

#94

THIS!! When folks have major health issues it takes time to get where we want to go. The energy our bodies need for healing are also needed to deal with all the daily tasks and trials that come into play. It does take a heavy dose of patience.

#95

@darcygreenwald Darcy, I am SO glad to see a post from you today and even more so to see that you’re going to try to hang on with the PKD for a while longer. :smile: :heart:
Thank you so much for asking about those things cause it is important but our family is trying to help two other families with finances and so at this time I just can’t afford to have PM consultations. :heart: Also glad to read that you saw a difference with the iodine. It certainly seems to help.

That’s great that you can enjoy some veggies at this time. I know that once someone’s gut is healed they allow for some veggies and even honey to be re-introduced into the diet. I don’t think I’ll ever be a big fan of liver, lol. I just try to eat it first and get it over with before the rest of the meal. I do sleep less on this diet but it is much more of a deep, sound sleep so maybe that’s all we need at this point? I’ve read that gum disease heals on carnivore so hang onto that during this process too. :+1:

Happy New Year to you too, Darcy! Love your determination to get ahold of great health for yourself. You’ve got this! :heart:

(mole person) #96

Wow, I spent the afternoon reading all the instructions so that I could do a successful practice test prior to trying to do it fasted in a non caffeinated state. I didn’t expect to get a very good reading as I’d had a lunch of beef rib and fat and three cups of coffee with heavy whipping cream prior to testing.

My ketones were 2.2 and my blood glucose was 74. I’m ecstatic with those first readings. That gives me a Boz ratio of 33 which is in her immune repair range which is exactly what I want. I can’t wait to see the morning readings.

#97

So well said. This is a point I like to tell others on carnivore yet they don’t get it. Have no patience on it. That is why a carnivore saying out there is Keep the Faith :slight_smile: It is hard to do but means SO much! Those who do keep the faith get stellar results if they hold plan. Many won’t ever put in the time tho. Instant gratification and results are wanted. Wish that was the case for all but it never will be.

#98

@Ilana_Rose Those numbers are excellent! No wonder you’re seeing so much healing going on in your body. :smile:

(mole person) #99

@ReneeRC my fasted ones were less good though! Glucose 82 and ketones 1.1 at 5:30 am. It’s very confusing. Do you ever have better numbers in the day after you’ve eaten etc than fasted?

#100

@Ilana_Rose No, my ketones normally stay the same but my glucose will rise. Since PM only requests fasted (AM) numbers that is usually all I test now. Did you eat more than normal yesterday? It is confusing for sure.