P:E discussion on Twitter, Amber O'Hearn versus Ted Naiman

(Bob M) #1

There is a current discussion on Twitter between Amber O’Hearn, @KetoCarnivore, and Ted Naiman, @tednaiman, about whether Ted’s P:E (protein:energy, which of course drives an engineer like me crazy, since the units aren’t the same) ratio actually helps (Ted’s theory) or hinders (Amber’s theory) weight loss.

As someone who went from eating very high fat to eating much higher protein because of Ted Naiman, I’m currently in Ted’s camp. I can, however, be convinced otherwise.

Furthermore, I think it’s likely person-specific. It may be related to what you are eating (is carnivore different from keto or low carb?), it may be related to exercise (I lift weights and do HIIT, as does Ted, so maybe we get better results with higher protein?), your genetics (Jimmy Moore and John Limansky interviewed someone who went over their genetic profiles on the Keto Hacking MD podcast, to determine why Jimmy has hypoglycemia when eating both high protein and very high fat), and your insulin resistance. I think it may also change over time. I started low carb eating higher fat, then went really high fat, then went lower fat, much higher protein. Maybe higher protein when you just start low carb is not as good? This may also be because I think I’ve repaired some of the damage I did to my pancreas, liver, etc., and I weight lift to failure (every set, I do it until I can’t). It also may depend on the types of meat and other foods you’re eating. Someone on Twitter said they have better results with beef and less with pork, chicken, and fish, but the former is lower PUFA, and the latter are higher PUFA.

For me, I have found that protein seems more filling. I can easily overeat fat, but it’s very, very difficult to overeat protein.

Anyway, if you have a twitter account, it’s worthwhile following this discussion. You can search for their Twitter handles, and then see the discussion. (I’d link to it, but apparently I don’t know my password anymore for Twitter, which I really only use on my phone, and I don’t have the time right now to reset my password on my computer.)

(Chris - carnivoremuscle.com) #2

Can’t find it. Get to work on that password.

(Carl Keller) #3

I agree with you Bob and I have zero fear of protein but I find that it affects me slightly different. If I overeat fat I start to feel queasy so it’s easy to know when I’ve had enough. Protein is definitely more filling to me and when I reach my limit I just lose interest in eating any more. A few days ago, I was eating a ribeye and I got down to the last 3-4 bites and I just couldn’t finish it. I wasn’t stuffed but it’s as if my leptin hormones just threw up a white flag.

In any event, I’m pleased with how my hunger signals are behaving. It’s been almost a year since I ate so much I had to go take a nap to escape the misery.

(LJ) #4

I 'm not able to re-find it, but is not Amber also emphasizing (at least in part) the different higher fat needs many women find, esp post-menopausal women? I read a slice of it this morning but haven’t been following along through the day.

(Ilana Rose) #5

I do way better on higher fat; much higher fats. But I believe strongly that how you get these fats matters hugely. Eating olive oil on salads or coconut oil in fat bombs, or even slices of butter is not satiating to me. I will get hungry again very quickly.

However, if I have solid beef fat added to my meats the satiating effect is huge. Furthermore, if I instead have just more of the meat I will suffer all sorts of hunger over the next 12 hrs or so.

I believe that Amber is coming from a similar place. She isn’t eating oil or butter. She’s adding solid hunks of meat fat with all the protein structures intact. I think therein lies the difference to both its digestion and its satiating value.

(April Harkness) #6

Oly lifter and kettlebell sport athlete, i do much better on higher protein.

(Erin Macfarland ) #7

Lol @Dread1840 I second that, I have no desire to have a Twitter account but would be interested in reading the exchange!