OXtoberFest ZC Challenge

[Fangs]

November will be here soon. I’m already planning on continuing the experiment. It could be my imagination, but I’m not feeling quite as crippled in the evenings with my back.

That is super duper! Your back could be better because you are eliminating alot of inflammation and maybe that is kicking in a bit and help you? Not sure but take it and run with it LOL Glad you are feeling a bit better!! Love you are going into Nov in good zc spirit!

Sat here at 5.20am UK time ready to start the day, which is a world of difference from pre-zc when I would be grumbling when the alarm went off at 8.

very cool. this is a great benefit! I also like waking up easily and ready for the day vs. old carby sluggy days I had to drag myself up and grumble like you

Good Oxtober morning

big steak
2 chicken breast
6 slices bacon
some taylor ham

just rolling along in good shape. Just eating as the body wants.

I have to say right now not much to chat about on zc cause it is all going very smooth for me. Happy with the food, feeling wonderful, simplicity of this plan, all just comes together for me!

[KellynP]

I have cut way back on salt. I only add a small amount to my eggs in the morning. No other salt the rest of the day. I may remove that salt as well in a few days. I haven’t added any to my meat or water in a few weeks. And come to think of it, I have not had any cramps. I actually was having some cramps before when I was using a lot of salt.

[KellynP]

I am thinking about adding liver more often to my diet. Possibly every other day. I found that I really like calf liver and my local Ingles has them cut and deveined and frozen in individual slices. I can put a slice in the fridge at night and cook the next morning to eat with my eggs, which is what I did this morning. I am more full this morning than usual so I will push my lunch back which will help me tonight because with church tonight I will not have time to eat dinner.

[Alexaar]

The lack of cramps is interesting, the opposite of what you’d expect based on common advice!

Also super jealous of the sliced frozen liver. Sounds like a great way to include it.

[VirginiaEdie]

I have to opposite problem: not enough salt equals cramps and muscle aches.

I would like to get to the point where I am salting my food, but not supplementing with extra.

[Shinita]

As far as I know, my salt intake is never a problem, I get cramps due to magnesium problems. But sodium may affect it too, I don’t really care as I can’t change my sodium consumption much anyway and magnesium pills always helped. I can supplement magnesium but I can’t eat much more or less sodium.
I need salt for taste at this point, not much, though… And I hate using much, it causes problems, I feel my life is horribly salty and start to hate and avoid salt.

I probably will play with less sodium if I can. I really miss it on my not very salted meat though.

Well, guys, good luck for the rest of the month, I am still serious about my carnivore trial November (or carnivore-ish when it gets too hard for some reason. it shouldn’t but my longest time was maybe 5 days this far? because at that point I always run out of my little meat but still) but I have simply no meat at the moment again and I planned (not really planned, I am too good at messing up my plans, I should be flexible) some relaxed end of October anyway. Not like I can go too far, of course, I prefer my carni main meals all the time. I just can’t live on eggs alone. Today wasn’t bad, I had a tiny leftover liver and quark, we got out and ate the little pork stew we had in the freezer, I ate quark and cheese… All I have left is eggs, cheese, cream and fish. I don’t like boring lean fish. But as I enjoyed my stew, I remembered that stew makes even not so great lean stuff good… We should make fish stew. I like the texture and softness of fish, I just have problems with the lack of rich flavor.

But we will be away for 3 days (cemetery visits and I will see my aunt, the only close blood family member of mine) and there will be plenty of meat as usual. Good one. The best chicken I ever tasted, I could eat it once a year even while I had still trauma from all the chicken in my childhood. I very much avoided chicken for 20 years (it’s very easy when one is a vegetarian… or almost…) but that one always tasted amazing. And not 2 drumsticks/thigh per person, no. There is PLENTY. I suspect I ate 10 once. It was very late and I was hungry. It’s probably gluttony in the eyes of most people while I just satiated my hunger. People have so odd ideas sometimes.
We try to get some meat the way home, I like the idea of having liver and broth at home all the time… Among every other important kinds of food. We should start to buy things in bigger quantities. But it’s still so new to us, especially in the supermarket where we didn’t even want to buy meat before… So our next city shopping will be serious and then I will be ready for my November.

We watched Attanborough’s “A life on our planet” and Alvaro talks about CO2 and whatnot during meals now…

[Fangs]

yea on zc salt is very personal. really most of us don’t need it alot, just use some salt to taste if wanted. cramps will go away for most people also. and that is all about adaption time while transitioning into this plan, so each of us will be different on time frames of that.

I am a super salter. omg I love salt…love love love it LOL I use a ton of salt in a day and I do just fine with that.

So just keep being individuals on salt everyone Do what is working for you at all times and just change things up as you tick off time on plan and you feel changes just come at you, just react to them as you need.

SO MUCH will change for everyone on zc as time flies by and those first months turn into 6-8 mos and into years if you decide to hold plan, so much differences coming at everyone. I have to say great things came my way after a year, into year 2 and even at 3.5 yrs I felt SO different, so keep on being you and see where zc takes you

[Bubby1]

I’m still in hospital… almost day 7. Will be here for a little while. But got an iron infusion last night. They started me on this med called Zoloft and it’s made me just not hungry. I picked at my dinner… Luckely it was just egg, cheese and salad… . Just been resting a lot. Shinita will be away for a few days. So I might come here more.. Still love keto… it’s just… hospital.. Hope your all well. I will get out of here stronger and stuff. I avoid the sweets like the plauge. Lol. I’m very tired now. So rest time. Peace to all.

[Alexaar]

Sorry you’re still having to deal with hospital! Have they given you any idea how much longer they want you to stay?

My partner was on 50mg zoloft for about 6 months a few years ago and it did help him cope with a difficult time in our lives, so fingers crossed it’ll be helpful for you too.

Resting sounds like a great idea, and naps will make the time pass quicker! Peace to you also

[Fangs]

I will get out of here stronger and stuff.

You will! Glad you got your iron infusion you needed, that right there should help you with gaining strength! And happy you got some better food to suit you You hang in there B and just rest, get meds ya need and they will sort you out and when ya get out, you can recover in good time at home! Wishing you the best, hugs!!

[Fangs]

good very early morning

hubby left to drive a vehicle from his job out of state and he hit the shower at 2:30 am for an early start on his long trip, so of course he woke me up, and me being the farmer gal I am, when up I am up LOL When he left later I tried to go back to sleep but couldn’t, so it is gonna be one heck of a long darn day for me…I am a fortune teller, I see a nap in my future today

I was hungry yesterday so I ate well
1.5 lb steak
taylor ham slices
2 chicken breasts
can of tuna
beef sticks

I am gonna shop more beef sales and hit those up. I wanna concentrate a bit more on beef since I do so well on it…I require it ya know. So it will be a focus for me. Everything listed under my big old NY strip steak I ate yesterday, while good food for me in a way, just doesn’t hold a candle to eating more beef, so beef it is and will shop cheaper sales of like chuck roasts and more to keep more beef into my meals.

Other than that all is going fab. Feel great. No troubles with zc. Just cruising along.

[FrankoBear]

and no kidding I had all my old tapes of John Denver playing in my head and my old Chicago albums, Springsteen and more…oh darn we had it made didn’t we LOL

CCR… The Creedance

Day #22. Off plan yesterday on drive back to country home as a response to some work stress. Eating carbs in the pursuit of momentary pleasure did not result in even a skerrick of joy. Ah well, back to it. 2MAD the day before that = coffee, chicken wings and then beef ribs.

Today it’s been raining eggs (hallelujah). 2 boiled eggs. Old eggs are better to boil as they peel easier. Told this by the farmer’s wife and it seems true. I had MCT oil in my coffee as a substitute for cream and then I read about MCT oil and heart palpitations in many people. So, I won’t do that again . My alternative to coffee with double cream (HWC) is an iced long black. Cold long black with ice blocks. Spring is warming up here with an occasional sunny day touching 30’C. Later I had 3 rashes of middle bacon, butter, 3 fresh eggs as an omelette, 3 slices Jarlsberg cheese. My dog’s meal was more complicated. She had fried beef mince, 1 fresh egg, olive oil, 3 sardines, beef&lamb gelatin, and 3 large spoons of Greek natural yogurt.

I listened to an interesting podcast from the Low Carb MD stable and it spoke to something @Fangs has been coaching me on during Oxtober Fest. That is eating. And not eating. I think I may have been ready to hear it but the podcast was very clear that a high fat ketogenic diet is a starting phase with all the benefits of circulating ketones and hunger suppression as the person becomes fat adapted. But once fat-adapted the high fat version of the ketogenic diet (<20g carbs, moderate protein of 1g per kg of lean body mass, the rest being fat to satiety) needs to be teamed up with 36 hour fasts, if weight loss is the ongoing goal. Otherwise it is weight plateau city albeit with much improved metabolic health.

Alternatively people can pursue a higher protein low carbohydrate dietary approach with no added fat, just enough to cook with. No fasting except for natural eat when hungry and that will likely be less than 3 times per day. There will be lower or no circulating ketones to measure and usually a rise in fasting blood glucose due to physiological insulin resistance in the skeletal muscle. Eating higher protein in a low carb dietary plan does not result in elevated insulin despite demand driven gluconeogenesis. The higher protein is helpful especially for older practitioners. As an aside higher protein in a moderate or higher carb dietary approach does create insulin spikes. This comes from the work of Prof Ben Bikman.

The higher protein approach includes the carnivore / zero carb approach.

[Fangs]

Off plan yesterday on drive back to country home as a response to some work stress. Eating carbs in the pursuit of momentary pleasure did not result in even a skerrick of joy. Ah well, back to it.

gonna hit you with tough love here and I will smile while doing it…
work stress, you can’t relate food for comfort. You drove home many times and ‘bought your ZC foods’ and had no trouble doing it. It wasn’t the stress, it was you wanted carbs. You wanted them back cause you know point blank you have driven home, had stress and more and you ate your zc food and found it. I remember reading how great ya did on finding you zc food, but it wasn’t stellar as ya hoped SO??? Come clean to yourself here…it is an important step. You wanted carbs and ya ate them. Now you didn’t say what you did eat and I don’t know ‘how off plan’ ya went here LOL but I bet it was all about the carbs? Correct me if I am wrong on this one.

So remember, the carbs gave you nothing truly. Set this in your mind. You drove home and found zc food cause you knew this was the plan you wanted to eat and you made it work then, well, make it work from here on out You got a big message, food is not joy for comfort and it ‘fixes’ nothing other than robs your body so in the end…driving home and stressed/irked/ticked off/super tired of it all…find your comfort in your nutrition of staying on plan and patting yourself on the back with a big azz smile while doing it These are training moments. I know, I lived them but face those facts, train from those moments if you value your health over food even in stress/social/whatever situations. Tough love chat on that one and meant in the kindest way to ya cause I walked this path also!

I had MCT oil in my coffee as a substitute for cream and then I read about MCT oil and heart palpitations in many people. So, I won’t do that again

darn smart. this stuff is a disaster. some do well on it only cause they don’t hit the biggest nasty side effects, or do? and don’t have a clue this crap is the culprit. You are super smart to let this go!! Heck there is a thread running out on keto area that the poster said MCT is killing me and others agreed. Bad junk. Not ‘real food’ in any way truly…so yea, , dumping it forever is best!

But once fat-adapted the high fat version of the ketogenic diet (<20g carbs, moderate protein of 1g per kg of lean body mass, the rest being fat to satiety) needs to be teamed up with 36 hour fasts, if weight loss is the ongoing goal. Otherwise it is weight plateau city albeit with much improved metabolic health.

I got issues with this because we are chatting ‘Keto plan’ or ‘very low carb’ plan here, not zero carb plan. So it is not the same and won’t ever be. ZC NEEDS NO 36 HR FASTS by forcing this in any way. Now, we might not eat that long for whatever reason but we never do anything like this ‘on purpose’ cause while, yes anyone can starve down the scale, you do not have to do this with zero carb. In that, zc heals first. Takes whatever time it takes and your personal appetite will waver in and out and give you ALL those starving down the scale benefits without ever starving in any way. Full nutrition at all times even if you eat ‘less’ on a day cause you just are not hungry at all. But if hungry you eat big or as needed.

Now I am heading into year 4 and stalled out on losses for a while thru that time BUT it was Cheryl’s original challenge that got my loss moving again. I dropped forever my ‘tiniest bit of 90% dark chocolate’ I just ‘wanted to keep in my life’ and with that gone the scale started to move. Also it put me back into correct zc land. zero carbs and I also got my natural eating pattern back in that one day I eat less cause I don’t want it and then days of eating SO big it is scary and when I eat bigger, is when I lost the lbs. Yes I lose them slow now but I never ever am hungry and super satisfied and content on plan. So when the losses do come, I am thrilled cause I am ‘never dieting’…I just eat every day as my body asks and never question it. But while I lost most of my lbs I want gone and am trying for those last ones, someone else might get way bigger lbs down on the scale in their journey at whatever timeline it goes down for them. You could start dropping a ton of lbs at any point but that again is a personal thing. ZC people on plan will always be in a very different stage at whatever time on plan. Hope that makes sense

So in the end, when us zc people have ‘absolute natural times of eating less cause we just don’t need food and are not hungry’ and we also can easily have days when we do OMAD even if we are more a 2MAD eater, then that is a natural way the body will regulate what it wants, and if you just do that and get the hell out of your body’s way and let it do its’ thing, the benefits come at ya faster, weight loss being one of them.

I can’t comment mostly about eating less than 20 carbs cause when I did that back in the old days, I was starving thru days, I was doing every trick/tip/crazy thing to ‘lose lbs’ and while I could lose them, I could never keep them off. Never which is why I walked into zc full on. On ZC eating as I want every single day, the lbs drop slower but I sure never gain an ounce thru my eating however much I want in a day.

So…that is personal experience chat on zc about that info posted.
We all can chat up about our zc experiences about weight loss and the chat I do chat is from zc forums with people having to ‘walk their time’ on plan and understand what it takes on this way of life.

see, in full truth, zc is a healing lifestyle. everyone’s timeline on that will never be the same so benefits like weight loss, improved _____, insert things that get fixed for you are only going to happen with time on plan and holding this plan. It is not ‘about weight loss’ as the focus cause the healing has to happen before the other. So it is a huge ‘keep the faith’ attitude the plan will heal and correct your body and it will. Many of us has walked this path and know but ONLY thru doing the plan as it should be done will give the zc results we want.

Worst is time on plan. No one ever wants to have ‘no weight loss’ results EVEN as they gain a ton of other benefits, less joint pain, better clarity, tons of energy, no hunger, feeling body nourished which is huge for us who never really knew that feeling and on zc ya know it when it goes down! and way more benefits people find as they heal that are personal. But in the end the DAMN weight loss is always the focus and in the bitter end of it all will never define us as great humans but always defines us in so many ways. The body will dump the lbs on zc when healed more and it is ‘time for the body’ to direct its healing efforts in that area. Shore up the hormones, shore up that insulin, correct the liver functions, correct the kidney functions, take out toxins from our eating with clean zc eating and in the end, the body CORRECTS and when it all ‘hits’ the lbs drop off.

ok just me chatting on what it takes, experiences thru 10s of thousands of threads I have read on zc thru the years and personal experiences and in the end…just do the plan and eat SO well while healing is happening and get out of your own way and let it go down as it should.
that is what worked for me, when I accepted to just eat as much meat/seafood/fish as I required at all times, WOW, the light bulb went on and the body took over…and I never wonder on that. Ravenous days I eat SO much it can darn near scare me but I never worry one bit on it, cause the plan never fails me.

whew, tired of typing now HAHA

chat up zc everyone. It is ok to question what you see in videos, chat what others personal experiences are and what it took for them and why zc works the way it does This is all great chat!!

[SecondBreakfast]

Stars and Stripes Forever, here. I could listen to it over and over as it reminds me of Daddy. He was a musician- and either played or directed. That was one of our favorites.

[SecondBreakfast]

Okay peeps. Lemme just say its been really hard to get back on plan since falling off. But, we’re there.
My days begin with a double liquid chicken latte. Today however, the second egg I cracked open was a double yolker!!! So…today’s is a triple liquid chicken. I know this is definitely not for everyone, and it required a good bit of courage for me to try it the first time. But, it is SO hard for me to eat breakfast most days - as I just can’t really stomach anything but coffee. This is my work-around. I get the eggs, the fat (HC), and coffee. And, the Pumpkin spice coffee my daughter keeps making actually tastes pretty good in it.

I cooked up a bunch of chicken thighs two nights ago, and made enough for dinner, and to take to work for 2 days. Yesterday, I thawed 4 pounds of ground beef, made burgers, and will have those leftovers at work today.

Got tomorrow off, so, I’ll do more cooking for Sat, Sun, Mon. when I work. The new position is going well. HR has not dealt with the promotion yet, which sucks, because I can’t do alot of the functions on my own. Actually might be kind of a good thing, so the top boss is with me most of the time- training me as to how SHE likes the tasks completed. Its hard, because every manager has a different way of doing things- and I learned (the hard way) that one of them trained me incorrectly on a huge part of the job.

Not stress eating though. There is stress and pressure to learn things, but my experience has been that on carnivore ( and also while extended fasting), my mental clarity is ridiculous - like, through the roof! Might not be the same for everyone, but, if it works that way for me, I could not be happier.

Going to try and work through a few chores around the house before I go into work. Should be a fun day… we’re forecasted to get anywhere from 3 to 12 inches of snow. lol!

[VirginiaEdie]

I wonder if you are having these slip ups because you are not embracing the carnivore way and you are not eating enough?

[Fangs]

Okay peeps. Lemme just say its been really hard to get back on plan since falling off. But, we’re there.
My days begin with a double liquid chicken latte. Today however, the second egg I cracked open was a double yolker!!! So…today’s is a triple liquid chicken. I know this is definitely not for everyone, and it required a good bit of courage for me to try it the first time. But, it is SO hard for me to eat breakfast most days - as I just can’t really stomach anything but coffee.

SB!! so happy your work is going kinda like ya need it to go, the promotion and all will come into play but that ‘what the manager’ in that store likes is a big key…I get what you are saying on that!!!

Now, VERY COOL you got back on plan.

There is a weirdo movement on SO MANY of us ‘hate breakfast’ and we do. So this is a personal ‘walk by you’ thru that eating in a way. Many just have to find what suits them and makes it easiest for them. So the breakfast thing I do get! I hate eating early…forever in my life…so I don’t start eating til like 11am and then food kicks in but you will have to find your own path. Things with nutrition we get has to work into ‘our daily life’ also thru work and more so? You do you on this one!

Do not extend fast on purpose while you ‘are becoming carnivore’ cause that will absolutely work against you. Truth. All those who did that, ‘purposefully not eat when hungry’ never go long term zc and gain that ‘zc full zen’ if ya do it. But if not hungry it is ok not to eat for sure.

Now many zc people might do EF down the line and see for themselves on what they get from it, but that is when they ‘are locked into zc’ with time. So give it like at least 6-9 mos. before doing EF. Believe me it is hard to fathom but it is worth the trek this way

SNOW! I am NC and got sun and decent temps.
OMG where you at with 3-12 snow now? feel for ya on that one LOL
farm work is way worse in heavy snow LOL

[Fangs]

and you are not eating enough?

yea I eat a ton more than FB does LOL and I can see some low intake food days also with FB…it is real. You must must must eat on ZC, omg, especially when starting. You can’t ‘diet trick’ anything. Food is key intake for this plan! Wondering too on it.

[SecondBreakfast]

Okay Fangsy…get yer map out. Find the Michigan mitten. Find the tip of the mitten, and go over the Mackinac Bridge. (It splits Lake Michigan and Lake Huron. ) Then, follow US2 over to the west, head north around Manistique, then head west again towards Marquette. Go past Marquette 100+ ish miles West/Northwest. You’ll end up on the Keweenaw Peninsula - which is pretty much surrounded on 3 sides by Lake Superior. That is where we are, and why we get so much snow. Lake effect snow is the most difficult to predict in terms of how much we might get, but the current storm is heading over land from the west. No clue what tonight will look like! Grandpa always says, “Nine months of snow. Three months of company.” ha!

On that fasting thing…yeah. That is something you don’t jump into with both feet, or don’t do at all unless you are truly not hungry at all. I stuck to intuitive eating for a long time, and would routinely go 30 hours without feeling hungry whatsoever. EF is another story. So, with my first 7 day EF, I did something a little different. I wasn’t carnivore before that. I was full on Ketogenic, though. The fast started a couple days before what would have been my brother’s 54th birthday. (He died the year before.) I wanted to try carnivore, though. But more than that, I wanted to break the emotional/psychological chains of eating-for-comfort. Comfort eating had been a coping mechanism for most of my life, along with bulimia from age 12-29. Losing my grandmas, my parents, my brother, my house…etc…all of those things take a toll- and established a horrible habit in my life. The fast started right around the first anniversary of when my brother let me know about the MRSA infection, and valve transplant. He died less than 48 hours later. He was morbidly obese, had stage 4 cirrohsis, was diabetic, had asthma, and BP issues. I vowed that I would not follow the same path. So, after doing various EFs -2 day, 3, day, 5 day etc. for the previous 4-6 months or so on Keto, I had chiseled out that time frame do a 7 day EF - not just in his memory, but to break my own chains of eating disorders. For me, the autophagy and all the other good stuff were bonus items.
I felt as though I had been “cleansed” of those chains afterwards, and celebrated with Prime Rib and butter. That was how my carnivore journey began.

Didn’t mean to type out a short book here, but actually, writing about it helps strengthen my resolve and remind me why I do what I do. So, I apologize for boring those of you who already know this stuff. But, EF definitely has a place in my life - but not for the reasons that others might fast. It takes practice, becoming fat adapted, and building up to. I don’t do extended fasting now except for that once-a-year time (maybe twice) to work through my most difficult emotions and grief associated with the “anniversary dates”.

I don’t have any EFs planned anytime in the near future, but keeping my eats clean is absolutely necessary. Cold weather = joint pain and aches. I do not need nor want pains and aches. Meat is the way to pain free living!

[Bubby1]

@Alexaar Thanks love, yup still here and get told a million contradicting things a day . Sigh. For three days it’s like " Your going to another part of the hospital, now not till tomorrow, now today, now tomorrow". Etc etc. So god knows what today will bring. But it leaves me very very anxious. To make it worse… my nurse is intimidating today. Like I’m anxious as hell and in pain… but too scared to ask for the pills I need.. Zoloft has made me completly lose my appetite. And I’m SO sick of this carby food. I can’t eat the desserts… and I used to love fruit… but since keto… I can’t deal much with sugar… @Fangs Thanks Fangsy, the iron infusion certainly helped… I just hate stress of the unknown. I haven’t pooped for 9 days and don’t even feel the urge… and she pumped me full of awful laxatives. And I HATE them… because of the bowel surgery I had at 22 they hurt my gut. AND then she goes " When you go, call me in and I want to look at it". WHAT!!! I know she’s a nurse but how embarrassing. I’m on SO many meds right now… vitamin B… Zoloft… two things I don’t know of… etc etc. I really am so bored of the food. And bread probably clogs me up… but there’s more bread then protein… so what choice do I have … I don’t like breakfast… I just can’t eat the moment I wake… and it was porrage and sugar and bread. So I just snuck to the cafe and got a proper coffee.. I have this problem where I hate not knowing what’s gonna happen. I’m not looking forward to going to the other part of the hospital. Dreading it. Probably will be today. I am SO tired. Normally I would be saying… mmmmmmm i miss meat. But I’m just not hungry. It will sort out… I hope Shinita is having a nice time, she’s my best friend. ( it’s interesting when nurses talk about you around the corner and think you can’t hear them.). I’m in a room full of very old ladies. One screamed all night. Dementia… poor thing… kept trying to go walkabout.. The nurses ask " Where you wanna go?" She goes " How the hell would I know".. I went walkabout at midnight the other night. Anyway… that’s my update. I’m SO tired. But i get when I sleep… doctors will come… or nurses. Or the devil to take me to hell for being a naughty girl.. Sigh.