That’s fashionable with a certain segment of American women. But I’m guessing you probably know that. So Franko, I haven’t read the links or videos posted but I wonder why we aren’t dumping oxalates all the time, and why would not ingesting them cause more to be leaving your body than when you do eat them? So I’ve been eating low oxalates for a while. Minimal veg, only occasionally a couple tablespoons of almond flour but rarely any nuts at all, no chocolate or cocoa. Quit spinach, chard and kale. Espresso is probably the biggest source of oxalates for me since the beans are ground much finer and there’s actual super fine coffee powder suspended in the brew. Instant coffee is high in oxalates too. I think the coarser the grind the less oxalates. If I stopped the little vegetables that I eat and the espresso I have to wonder if I would experience anything negative from oxalate dumping. 
Oxalates
American women are a fascinating mystery to me. I did not know that. I can’t keep up with the face painting. My preference is coloured zinc cream to protect my lips from sunburn.
We probably are David. But I don’t know. Working from general physiological principles, the body would want to detoxify and excrete a toxin. The problem with oxalates is that they are a tiny organic acid molecule. And they are a strong negatively charged molecule. So the oxalate rapidly binds to free cations, especially minerals such as calcium or magnesium. But manganese, Selenium et al are all probably at risk of binding. Then it depends where the oxalate is bound that affects its storage or excretion. Being so small a molecule it can get anywhere in the body.
I’m just parroting, and probably inaccurately, Sally K Norton. Oxalates have turned into her dietary schtick. Meaning the altruism she demonstrates is heading toward entrepreneurship and monetisation, And I’m all for teachers being paid fairly for dispensing wisdom or lessons.
People eating dairy may bind oxalates in the gut before they get absorbed. That gives us all permission to have double cream in our coffee, or mix dairy in (cheese, cream, butter) with our wilted spinach or berries. It also can be a dietary Pandora’s box.
There s a way to find out: n=1. As I type this my teeth hurt and I have ‘pins & needles’ but ant bite level pain in my hands face and toes. It is also pins & needles pain in my teeth. I’m tuned into it now and take a meditative approach of examining the sensation from a dissociated third person point of view. There are small white patches/plaques under the thin skin to the sides of my heels, and I have been rubbing a sandy cement type material from my eyes. I am drinking a lot of water and having citrate salts supplements, so I don’t build a kidney stone
+333 [that bit is my cat typing]
In the carnivore communities on Facebook we are seeing a lot of this now, and we hypothesize that it is because of a huge number of keto people switching to carnivore. But without more research, we don’t know if it’s oxalates or histamines or adaptation symptoms or one of the host of other things. absolutely dumping is a real thing, it’s not just Sally Norton there is a very large group on Facebook called TLO - trying low oxalate that has been around for over 10 years. Personally, I was super strict keto and when I switched to carnivore the plaque buildup on my teeth has been ridiculous to the point I go every 3 months to have it cleaned. It used to be I was fine once a year. I also developed styes on my eye frequently sometimes on both eyes at the same time, unrelated to anything else. And after eating slow-cooked meat over the course of a few days as well as bone broth, I broke out with rosacea on my face which I have never had before. Apparently there is science showing that certain people can produce more oxalates from the high glycine in slow-cooked foods? Again it could be histamines, but I’ve never had this in my life. So my personal option is to wait and see where the science takes us. I also have quit recommending people on a standard diet go keto first.
I’ve traveled the world… they’re all a mystery. A magnificent, can’t live without 'em mystery. 
But I do seem to have the most trouble with the American ones.
I think I’m still more likely to point someone to keto than carnivore unless it’s someone that I know can handle the mental shift. Carnivore scares the hell out of people and maybe that’s why we get such a backlash (well, that and we do have some a-holes that get loud but every group does). I will definitely warn of the oxylate issue if I know anyone considering keto, though. Problem with that is that someone coming from SAD to keto will already be in mourning for all the foods they’re “giving up” that telling them to cut out all this other stuff is likely to send them running back to the fast food joints.
Funny thing is that after going carnivore I did get this crazy tooth pain several times. I had very recently had a checkup and cleaning so everything was ok. It hurt like 
for a few minutes then went away. My eyes have also been a little funky periodically but until this came up listening to Sally Norton I never put it together that this could be what was going on. Also, had a weird rash looking thing on my foot for a day. I wonder if these could have been oxylate. I had already been fairly low ox for a while because I had started cutting the stuff I knew about out and had been getting more and more meat centric for a while.
wow I could not agree more on this statement!
I love what you said there and I agree to the ultimate!
Carnivore is a super hard walk. WE go there for reasons. WE go cause it suits us when we all did years and years of low carb and it didn’t suit us…years of extreme low carb and it didn’t suit us. THOSE who need Carnivore walk this way happily and find it suits them to a T and they receive benefits they never did on other plans.
and yet when another on a different plans say they have troubles, a 100% carnivore kicks in with ‘don’t eat’, as in try this elimination menu, and it gets attacked. No joke the food menu of people is a sensitive subject, no doubt about that ever, but there is nothing wrong with offering up experience and advice yet so many wish to censor others for this great advice.
But toxin release. There are a tons of toxins that are released in the body. When carnivore eating starts, they amt. of toxin released can be wild, everyone thru entire lifestyle and med issues etc will vary so much, heal time for inflammation and more WILL vary insanely sometimes. Our body heals on this 100% carnivore plan. And we can see toxin release thru a longer time than one would ever think.
Our bodies heal. Internally. But the body picks systems to heal on ITS’ schedule. So toxin release of easy stuff can happen fast, toxins in muscles can take longer and so on………longer and longer on 100% carnivore eating plan will be different for all at different times, but that is the beauty of it…it celebrates our individuality in a way. We walk our own personal path to health and I love that about the plan. Reading how everyone has a victory to their personal journey on their own timeline. A world of 100% carnivore chat about a person’s journey is wonderful for me to read! I applaud all those taking these steps and handing their own health!!
Iodine oxidizes oxalates, oxalates also prevent the uptake and storage of iodine in the thyroid gland because it is expending all it’s power to kill the oxalates which was known back in year of July 1932, oxalobacter formigenes also destroy and oxidize oxalates, broad-spectrum quinolone antibiotics kill oxalobacter formigenes or referred to in the literature as “O” which is hard to re-populate the gut with O and why so many peeps have oxalate intolerances.
The answer is very simple?
Get enough iodine in your diet but not too much, you want balance?
And drink some lemon water (citrate kills a/k/a dissolves oxalates)?
Case closed!
BTW: And if your wondering why people are so intolerant to oxalates look no further than the meat your eating and the use of Quinolone anti-biotics used to treat live-stock that they put in the feed or inject? Notice how that medium raw steak is dripping with anti-biotics? Lol
I don’t believe that lemon water is something carnivores ingest?
BTW: And if your wondering why people are so intolerant to oxalates look no further than the meat your eating and the use of Quinolone anti-biotics used to treat live-stock that they put in the feed or inject? Notice how that medium raw steak is dripping with anti-biotics? Lol
This is why I buy almost all of my meat from a company that raises their animals without all that stuff.
In answer to @David_Stilley’s question though…could it be that our bodies are in ‘defensive’ mode when the intake of oxalates are high. Then when we are on a lower oxalate intake our bodies are able to go into a major ‘house-cleaning’ mode hence all the dumping? Just wondering…
lemon water…no 100% carnivore is touching that.
the ‘oh the meat is so bad’ scare gets old reading about also on our carnivore threads.
ugh…just a personal thought when the antibiotic etc. meat stuff is posted. Carnivores handle what meat etc. they decide to eat as a personal choice and most are sick of hearing about ‘oh meat bad’ BS out there…lol
Carnivores know about our meats. We choose personally the path we want. We are adults, we know, ya know. If eating this plan we research about our meats and more. We make our own personal informed decisions. No one needs to keep telling me about my meats on this plan HAHA just gets old reading it over and over again.
just saying.
I had this happen, too. I thought I was developing scurvy from not getting enough vitamin c. Then I heard that was a symptom of oxalate dumping.
After a few more difficult months and stuffing my feelings with nuts (keeping it PG this time ;)), I’ve been strict back on strict keto (my low-histamine version, plain and simple ingredients) for about 10 days now. I have a lot of eye crusties in the morning and I have a straight-line rash on my eyelid, right in the fold. I’ve had this from time to time, I always connected it to dairy - might have been wrong on that one. 
I guess it is a coin toss?
You don’t give them anti-biotics they die of something they were intended to be immune to begin with including humans?
You give them anti-biotics and what-ever it is they are trying to kill becomes immune to the anti-biotics?
Inoculations would probably be better?
I wonder what is causing this sterility?
Loss of microbes in the ground soil from chemical fertilizers? Maybe? ibid.
Then you have fungicides, pesticides, herbicides soaking into the soil killing whatever it is we’re supposed to be immune to?
Then there is, the pump them up on hormones thing?
It is very evident we are missing very important microbiome, we are becoming sterile little creatures, as soon as we get a taste of real dirt we die or get ill?
Unfortunately your an omnivore and were not intended to just eat meat, eventually you will get ill from doing so…just saying! When parts of your chromosomes are missing, damaged or switched in the off position you will pass that on to the next generation or your future children.
There is no historical evidence for just eating meat, somebodies pipe dream maybe?
If it were true I would be doing it!
Nope. .just saying.
pipe dream of all the useless stuff posted why not to eat carnivore in a carnivore thread…gets SO OLD. Carnivores know what they are dealing with in their eating plan, they know their truths, but some just can’t leave it alone. Why I have no clue truly? ugh
why someone who doesn’t want the plan, eat the plan, has no actual experience with the plan long term thinks they know it all…go figure. I just don’t get why you put your time into annoying others on a thread they use for the success of their new found health, the wonderful benefits we receive, their talk of their plan ideals and more? Can you enlighten me?
Inuit, Chukotha, Masai, Samburu, Rendille, Mongolian Steppe nomads, Sioux, Gauchos.https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/all-meat-diets/
Look no further than the salivary gland; it produces amylase (the best example) which is intended for the breakdown of carbohydrates?
It is not producing the other two enzymes for breaking down protein or fat, and that’s what makes us an omnivore.
Carnivores do not do this and why they don’t live that long?
You say complete cobbler but nobody can produce not one piece of evidence for exclusive eating of meat for the life of any human being?
Human beings can go for long-periods of time on a meat only diet but not exclusively for life?
When you over-eat animal protein and that’s all your eating and nothing else your playing with death.
The benefits your seeing are not from the exclusive eating of meat (or plants) it is coming from the fasting or fast-mimicking that’s taking place from eating such a diet although high in endogenous sugar.
People simply don’t want to listen to common sense but be faithful followers of their cult leader at the expense of their own life?
Joe and Charlene Anderson, Charles Washington, Dana Schute, Kelly Hogan, Bo Noles, all 10-20+ years eating all meat, no one is a leader… Don’t know what you’re reading
Holy Moly.
You now appointed yourself the Savior of all. The almighty know it all that thinks carnivores are a cult and you are out to save us all from ourselves.
Wake up…don’t need your saving one bit!
This is the funniest and biggest bunch of…I have seen written in a long time. You made my day.
You feel it is your heavenly mission to save us all from our cult status?
wow. you need to check yourself just a little bit here LOL LOL wow
I know what label you do wear and it isn’t Savior by any means
This is just too funny. I don’t think I would be amiss when I say all the adults on this Carnivore category don’t require your help in any way. Hey, maybe that might make sense to you, no one here needs saving by you personally. It is ok to let us go and leave us to die in peace and wither away and don’t blink an eye while you let us just do that in peace and harmony and let us just enjoy our stellar benefits of improved health before we just melt away and end up 6 ft under.